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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6036145" data-attributes="member: 22424">I deal with that by ruling that normal (as in non-adventurer) characters don't get above 5th level. No way, no how. That 20th level Commoner (or even the 10th level one) is a theoretical construct - he doesn't exist IMC. (Excepting something like Berem from Dragonlance, but he's inherently a special case.)That's fair... mostly. The Commoner NPC class is clearly weaker than any of the others. If I was actually concerned about balance, I would give a Commoner one more level than an 'equivalent' Expert or Warrior.Not being particularly bothered with balancing the NPC classes, I'll instead note that the difference (at 5th level) is +1 BAB, +3 Will save, and +6 hp (on average). Incidentally, both my sample commoner and the +6 value I've just given assume max hit points at 1st level.So the expert mostly wins, but even at 5th level it's not a huge disparity. If I really wanted to give an in-world justification, I'd say the Expert gets a better diet by virtue of improved wealth (for having a saleable trade). But I'll readily accept that that's a stretch. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Well, three things about that:1) Why is the warrior using substandard weapons and armour? Surely he should be using appropriate gear, or it's not a fair comparison?2) We're comparing the most extreme outlier amongst farmers with the run-of-the-mill warrior. I'm not sure I have a problem with the Commoner winning in those circumstances.3) In any case...Bob, Joe's Warrior Cousin1st level WarriorStr 13, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 8Skills: Intimidate +3Feats: Weapon Proficiency (simple, martial), Armour Prof (all), Shield Prof, Weapon Focus (longsword), ToughnessHit Points: 12AC: 16 (scale mail, large shield)Fort +3, Ref +0, Will +0Attack: Longsword +3, 1d8+1 damageAttack: Light Mace (thrown) +1, 1d6+1 damageI'm not sure that Joe would win that fight - yes, he has quite a few more hit points, but he's also considerably less likely to hit. I suspect it would be a close run thing. Where Joe is better is in his chosen skills, where he roundly outclasses Bob... but that's as it should be.(Amusingly, I've now written far more words than I intended in defence of something that I file under "more trouble than it's worth". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> )</blockquote>

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