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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6036480" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, again, we're ignoring the system.&nbsp; The system flat out tells you that the average person has 10's or 12's.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; They don't get ability bonuses AT ALL.&nbsp; 25 point buy value is baseline for Adventurers who, by definition, are meant to be a cut above the common.KM - my problem isn't that the peasant gained levels by killing goblins, my problem is that he gained levels at all.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Why is he gaining levels.&nbsp; If he's killed enough goblins to gain 3 levels, he's been in literally dozens of life threatening fights.&nbsp; Why isn't he dead?&nbsp; It's ridiculous.&nbsp; If your farmers are fighting off the goblins time and again, why do they need the PC's?I'll buy the farmer surviving a fight or two.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; But twenty or thirty?&nbsp; When people are telling me that he shouldn't even be able to take on a wet behind the ears town guard?&nbsp; How is that believable?And, if we're going to ignore the combat elements of level anyway, why bother with level at all?&nbsp; Peasant - Skill Farming +X.&nbsp; Done.&nbsp; Throwing in four levels of commoner doesn't add anything.&nbsp; Doesn't help anything and simply needlessly confuses things.And, hey, if people REALLY want to do the work, be my guest.&nbsp; There's absolutely nothing stopping you from adding class levels to NPC's in any edition of D&amp;D.&nbsp; It's only 3rd that tried to make a rigorous model of it.&nbsp; There's nothing stopping anyone from whacking on levels of whatever to NPC's in any edition.&nbsp; Heck, in AD&amp;D, the only thing level did was change your combat stats.&nbsp; 4e?&nbsp; No problem.&nbsp; Tag on whatever level you feel like.&nbsp; Go for it.&nbsp; But, don't make it the baseline assumption for the game.&nbsp; It's unnecessary and just leads to too many mistakes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6036480, member: 22779"] But, again, we're ignoring the system. The system flat out tells you that the average person has 10's or 12's. That's it. They don't get ability bonuses AT ALL. 25 point buy value is baseline for [i]Adventurers[/i] who, by definition, are meant to be a cut above the common. KM - my problem isn't that the peasant gained levels by killing goblins, my problem is that he gained levels [i]at all[/i]. Why? Why is he gaining levels. If he's killed enough goblins to gain 3 levels, he's been in literally dozens of life threatening fights. Why isn't he dead? It's ridiculous. If your farmers are fighting off the goblins time and again, why do they need the PC's? I'll buy the farmer surviving a fight or two. Fair enough. But twenty or thirty? When people are telling me that he shouldn't even be able to take on a wet behind the ears town guard? How is that believable? And, if we're going to ignore the combat elements of level anyway, why bother with level at all? Peasant - Skill Farming +X. Done. Throwing in four levels of commoner doesn't add anything. Doesn't help anything and simply needlessly confuses things. And, hey, if people REALLY want to do the work, be my guest. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from adding class levels to NPC's in any edition of D&D. It's only 3rd that tried to make a rigorous model of it. There's nothing stopping anyone from whacking on levels of whatever to NPC's in any edition. Heck, in AD&D, the only thing level did was change your combat stats. 4e? No problem. Tag on whatever level you feel like. Go for it. But, don't make it the baseline assumption for the game. It's unnecessary and just leads to too many mistakes. [/QUOTE]

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