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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6050097" data-attributes="member: 87792">Well it's a good job I'm not recommending th 3e CR mechanics then, isn't it.  The 4e equivalent is balanced around 5 monsters or equivalent for a 5 person party - or one monster each.Everything else you say about balanced encounters in that paragraph is talking about the 3e version.  And literally does not apply to the 4e version.  Your entire chain of objections here is irrelevant.And you're wrong here as well - once more talking about 3.x as though it was the be all and end all.  An encounter is just anothe word for a scene - and 4e has guidelines for non-combat encounters as well as combat encounters.  Further, D&D is a hacked tabletop wargame.  This has been part of its baseline assumptions throughout.Good class and monster design quite literally are balanced math.  The XP budget adds precisely one thing on top of this.  An easy way to compare the effectiveness of wildly disparate monsters by reducing the combat effectiveness to a single number that is more or less linear.  You don't have anything like the <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnD_DMG_XPFinal.asp" target="_blank">3.X CR table</a>.  The XP budget is useful because it's simpler than trying to compare a small goblin warband to a dragon two levels higher without being able to reduce the threat rating of both to a single number.  4e monsters threat ratings are built on two axes, not one.  You have the level which says how accurate they are and how tough to hit.  And you have the role which says how powerful they are.  A dragon is the archetypal solo; one dragon is considered to be a threat for an entire party of five adventurers of a given level and worth five normal monsters.  An elite is some sort of champion and considered worth two PCs.  Soemething like an Ettin that's just big and tough - and has two heads, or a Lich that's a scary threat but also has minions would be an Elite.  As would a named champion normally.  A standard is a standard.  And a minion is heavily outclassed and dies in one hit but still has some teeth, and so is worth a quarter of a normal monster.  Working out the threat of a goblin warparty that includes a champion, a shaman, a couple of blooded warriors, and twenty weak and cowardly goblins is easiest with an XP budget if you aren't certain.Literally all the points you have raised in this entire post are points that are perfectly true when applied to the 3.0 CR system but utterly irrelevant for 4e.Once again you are arguing against bad examples.  When the 4e examples (after polishing in the case of skill challenges) aren't bad ones.If they'd done that I'd still be unable to ride a bike.  Or to dance.  The idea practice makes perfect is a myth - practice makes permanent.  And I trust your teacher was correcting you when you went off key.</blockquote>

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