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Message: <blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 6050884" data-attributes="member: 463">It's the latter - I'm currently running 4e for 9th level PCs. I tend to be a pretty go-for-the-throat killer GM and after some changes in group membership, none of the current players are particularly tactical. When I killed 3/5 of them recently it was 5 9th level PCs vs an 11th level solo black dragon backed up by a bloodied 10th level elite Oni they had failed to kill earlier. For two players it was only their second session. The encounter triggered early; the advice in the Delve was that the dragon waited for the PCs to climb out of a sewer pipe into its chamber before revealing itself, but the lead PC into the chamber made the DC 32 Perception check to spot it right off. He shot at it and caused it to attack him while the others were still in the pipe, which turned out disastrous as the others were clustered in the pipe with water flowing down into the chamber pool, trying to climb down into the main chamber they got breathed on, could not maneuver in the three foot deep water, getting blasted by both Oni & Dragon. When the party Cleric started healing downed PCs to pop up again, the dragon started CDGing the fallen, which swiftly finished things off. The last PC standing grabbed a fallen comrade and managed to escape, with me rolling two consecutive 1s on the dragon's attacks as it chased her.Even so they had killed the Oni and taken the dragon to around 1/4 of its starting hp before losing.</blockquote>

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