D&D 3E/3.5 poly other 3.5

[Shard O'Glase]

One of the noted changes in balancing poly other in 3.5 was that their would be save bonuses if the creature was turnied into something that couldn't survive in the envoronment.

Was I missing the discusions but was this actually a balance concern.(not poly other I know it has problems but this specific part) i mean now that players will be truning foes into sloths or turtles or other helpless land creatures instead of dolphins I know things will be balanced.

Seriosuly last I checked the balance issues revolved entirely around the buffing problems and not aorund the save or die part. Though maybe at 4th level save or die is a bit much, but still how the heck does this fix change anything, I poly other the orc marauder into a turtle its dead just as much as if I turned it inot a fish.

 

[smetzger]

I agree. From what I have heard it doesn't look like the changes will 'fix' the spell for me.

Take a look at my Poly thread in House Rules and let me know what you think.
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46170

*:> Scott

 

[Henry]

Well, for one thing the orc marauder will still have the hit points of an orc marauder, not a turtle. A Purple worm polymorphed into a puppy will still have a hundred plus hit points. Other than that, yeah it doesn't help much, since all it means is that you've removed a creature's ability to whack you, and you can whack at it all day until it is dead.

 

[Petrosian]

I think the notion is to make the spells overall effect influence its difficulty. Imagine it as the bigger the impact, the more drastic the change, then the harder it is to get off.

As such ONE aspect of it would be making lethal changes harder than non-lethal ones.

A similar result could be making "neutering" changes like orc to turtle harder than non-neutering ones such as orc to goblin.

This led to some minor brainstorming over lunch the other day and it led me to rethink how to make a poly spell work altogether.

Understand, the notion is to affect BALANCE with the spell, as opposed to enablign everything imaginable.

Imagine the spell allowed you to make one IMPACTFUL CHANGE per caster level.

An impactful change would include hard numbers like a change of an attribute score by 2 points, a change of form or appearance, addition or subtraction of natural armor, etc More radical effects like the adding of limbs and such could be worth several impact points.

If you stay below a certain level of result, say the 1 IP per level limit, then you get the normal save and long duration. If you make bigger changes and go over the limit, you get an automatically shorter durations AND bonuses to the save to resist.

So you can make your into an annis hag, give him claws, give him natural armor +11, give him the physical stats etc but those will rapidly add up over the "easy change" limit and thus drive the duration down to a very short duration.

So you can turn the orc into a turtle but since turtles have weak strength and so on its probably also a very brief change and an easy save against.

Sure, the math needs to be worked out but it should be a rather small chart.

At least with this approach using poly to disguise your dwarf as "another dwarf" wont reset all your attributes to "dwarf normal."

 

[Destil]

Creature with spell-like abilities (including all psionics) are far better off when they can survive...

One thing some don't like about polly other is that it's both a buff and a save or die. I don't see any problem with that, myself, though some do.

 

[maddman75]

If you want to remove the buff aspect, just import the 2e rule. When struck by a polymorph other spell, the target even if willing must roll a Will save. If failed, the target now believes that they are *supposed* to have this form and will do what they feel is natural for this form. They will fight against all attempts to 'turn them back'.

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Creature with spell-like abilities (including all psionics) are far better off when they can survive...

One thing some don't like about polly other is that it's both a buff and a save or die. I don't see any problem with that, myself, though some do.

Well that is one of the reasons the spell is being split in 3.5 into baneful polymorph and polymorph. The poly with benefits has a limited duration while the baneful is permanent and in no way beneficial (always bad). The bonus to the spell save vs "form-of-inevitable-death" is nice. Turning an enemy Wiz into a guppy and then continuing the battle is different from turning them into a toad and then running over to squash them. Do you have any idea of the hide bonus for being tiny? And if its tall-grass you can forget it lol.

As far as balance issues, no longer can fighters be polyed into trolls and wander the landscapes willy-nilly. A limited duration means it has to be cast every day if desired and this drains a casters spells for the given benefits, as it should be.

Personally I prefer the house rule of the Ol' "look like a troll, begin thinking your one" bit...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sure, if you use it in a BENEFICIAL way.

If you do things like turn demons into celestials, it's a little different.

Consider the power level of geas when compared with "turn target into faithful hound"?

 

[Dash Dannigan]

Can't poly into outsiders.