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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheGogmagog" data-source="post: 2728282" data-attributes="member: 27702">I'm not sure I understand your question.  At 7th level you can plolymorph into a Very Young (Small) 7HD Black Dragon.  At max 15th level you can become a Juvenile (Medium) Black Dragon.  You will note that Dragon's don't come up often as ideal forms for polymorph, because they arn't that impressive.  Especially now the FAQ supports advanced creatures take a look at the Wyvern.  It doesn't look like much but advance it to 15 HD and you have a real monster, because of two size category changes from Medium to Huge.  +16 str ,+8 con, natural weapon damage increases twice, reach with the bite becomes 20', DC of the poision scales well, and more.  You will need some concealment (Greater Invisibility, displacement, mirror image) with that AC though.Along with the support of advanced creatures you could argue for regressed or child versions of monsters.  That would require working up the advancement with approval of your DM.  I would guess that a 7HD Stone Giant would be medium size (if not small), and therefore lose 8 str from size and 2 from regressing past 12th and 8th levels.  That 17 Str isn't as impressive.Edit: Ah, I see where you lost me.  The first question the answer is no.  If there is a monster manual entry it's considered typical of the race.  So there are typical Young Dragons and typical Juvenile dragons, you may choose either.  This has always been the most popular option, because it doesn't require the work to advance or devolve the creature.  The New FAQ acknowleges this and points out doing the work ahead of time (and I'd add get it checked and approved by the DM).  This would then require DM decision, so the FAQ doesn't 'force' the DM to allow advanced or devolved creatures.Personally, I've never liked the idea that if there is a monster manual entry that it's 'typical' of the race because of things like the Troll Hunter, it's a troll with class levels.  It's there to demonstrate an example of a troll with class levels.  I wouldn't allow a player take the form of a Troll Monk any faster than I would allow a player to take the form of a Human Wizard/Elemental Savant.  But since the Troll Hunter (Ranger IIRC) has a MM entry it's fair game in most campaigns.  Same goes for the Dire Template, many games allow the forms that have MM entries even though it's a template and banned by the text of Alter self.</blockquote>

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