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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tar-Edhel" data-source="post: 562357" data-attributes="member: 688">*waving his 'What Wizardru said' flag around*Of course, my solution doesn't solve all problems with Polymorph....but it does push the frontier (that frontier where a spell opens to interpretation) farther away.1- Your polymorphed wizard must be one tough dude if able to withstand combat. I am a 9-th level transmuter with 30 hp and I don't get nearer than my spells' range. Otherwise I'm toast.Your wizards may have maxed their skills/abilities to become fighting machine. Their higher stats might be in CON (leaving INT with a medium stat, lower DC and fewer spells) or they burned a few feats to get HP... You get the pointAnd, as you mentioned, some 'innocent' abilities are indeed very useful. But I prefer to see my wizard hesitate to polymorph between a bat (to get blindsight), an anaconda (biggest boa alive, IIRC) to constrict or a big baddy to get into melee instead of seeing them polymorph time afte time in a hag 'cause that's the critter that gives the most (natural AC, insane strength, etc...)Replace the hag by your favorite critter and the argument remains the same. I prefer to see creativity than munchkinism <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />BTW, the hag was just an example. I don'T want to start an argument about the effectiveness of a hag over another critter, please <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Things have always leveled themselves IMC2- I draw the line with the rule I offered: If i exists in RL, then you get it with Polymorph. I would allow Improved grab (since it relies mainly on 'natural' reach and speed), ink cloud jet (octopus), pounce, rake, poison, scent, ferocity, or whatever ability a RL animal gets in the MM. (Tried to find rending but wasn't able to... Don't know if I would allow it but at firt glance, yes).I would even allow bioelectric currents detection in water if you polymorphed into a fish (many of them 'sense' ther environment electrically, through a line that runs from head to tail). Don't forget that you get powerful abilities but at the cost of most of the one you use. If your mage polymorphs into a bat to see in the dark, He'll have a hard time casting spells or even relay the information to his comrades (I solved this problem by getting a pseudo-dragon familiar... Nothing beats that 60' telepathy they get <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )Unfortunately, the rules don't offer much in term of natural abilities (if they exist at all in DnD). My rule offers a simple and logical (don't like that term much in DnD but bear with me for a moment) way to solve the problem. I never understood why Constrict, Poison or the shark's keen senses were EX. It just doesn't make sense to me. I am left with the impression that they simply forgot to add that list of 'natural abilities' somewhere in the process of writing the books. I decided to do the job for them <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'd be curious to know what you consider a borderline case...</blockquote>

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