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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dr. Strangemonkey" data-source="post: 372656" data-attributes="member: 6533">war, the faithful, and the godsSomeone mentioned the Iliad earlier and I think that that is a fine case study for how a pantheon can react to a war among their faithful.  In this epic, here used as a literal as opposed to adjectival sense, the gods of Greece and the eastern mediteranean are all in a tizzy over who a conflict between mortals who follow the pantheon.  Now as someone else pointed out the two sides honor all of the gods even though the individual gods tend to favor one side more than another.  Bla bla bla, normal many gods confusion, right?Wrong, the Iliad is filled with specific examples of divine behaviour that perfectly illustrate why pantheism is fun fun fun when done right.The epic starts with Apollo firing arrows into the Greek host because they dishonored one of his priests.  Not a priest who has anything to do with the enemy, just a priest who got raided when the Greek army went foraging.  A priest Apollo, who isn't really all that for the Trojans or the Greeks, happens to really respect. Most of the gods take meddle in human affairs because of the victimization of someone they care about or because a group of humans has violated moral/divine etiquette in a way that offends them.  Point one: gods, with a little g, really care about proper relationships and personal relationships vis a vis themselves and the mortals.Zeus is the general exception, he meddles in moral affairs because other gods and fate want him to.Point two: in a really interesting pantheon there is always someone who has a different motive.  Most of the time a motive arranged around obeying the rulesA major artistic, philosophical, and symbolic element of the poem is the appearance of Achilles' shield.  A shield crafted by the gods.On this shield, the whole of the greek universe and life is depicted.  War is an integral part of the natural order represented in this image.Point three: we see war as something that is inherently unusual and morally questionable.  Just look at Christian/Western/Modern ideas of Just War theory.  In the Greek view and the view of their gods, and mind you I recognize that this is really simplified and Dr. Crider is going to reach out his intellectual hand and smite me, war is something that happens.  Humans go to war, it's part of what we do.Certain gods do favor Troy or Greece.  This has very little to do with who worships them.  Aphrodite likes Troy because Troy did her a favor and she has a kid there.  Hera and Athena like Greece because Troy did them a disservice.  All three gods are honored by both sides. Poseidon even ignores a lack of worship on the part of the Greeks because his interests would be affected by going after them.Point four: we often think of the gods as being primarily motivated by the worship of mortals.  while the greek pantheon is concerned by that, they have actual material and social interests which play a very large role in what groups they will actually support.  also the gods want different things, and their interests change. Conclusion: In the event of a war, the gods aren't likely to have a problem with the fact of the war itself so much as how it is prosecuted, how the god's interests are going to be affected, and what specific individuals are doing what to whom.  So that a god worshipped by two races who are at war is likely to simply make extra certain that both races are obeying the rules and that neither race is doing something like threatening that herd of cattle he or she spent so much time on back in the age of gold.  He or she is going to support both sides priests, as long as they act honorably, and probably going to try to keep other gods out of it.  If he or she truly felt the war shouldn't be happening he or she would probably attempt to negotiate or dictate the terms of a treaty.  In this case, if the situation were truly Greek, one of the people making the war happen will lie and seek the patronage of another god.  The subsequent events of divine/martial conflict, divine arbitration, divine/mortal punishment, civil discord, and adjustment to the order of things will result in several cycles of drama which will in turn form the basis for much of the world's literature.Now, if this is D&D were talking about, it could happen this way.  Or a group of 4-6 adventurers could come along and begin pushing the VCR buttons on the performance of this whole drama as they wreck havoc with the command structure of the opposing armies, steal the divine cattle, elope with the ethical princess who wants to bury her cousins, and kill the villanous king and the faithful god-look it says here he needs golden apples so after he ate the granny smiths we slipped him there is no way he could survive that acid bath-in a hideous misuse of the trap creation system that neither the gm, the game designers, nor the players ever truly intended.</blockquote>

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