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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5711963" data-attributes="member: 22424">Indeed. I have no problem with showcasing character skill. However, I think to a large extent these hidden elements in the adventure should be about player skill, and that boiling these down to nothing more than a dice roll is a problem - and that seems to be a mistake that post-3e adventures (at least) have fallen into.Honestly, I think the answer to this particular one is "my character doesn't solve the riddle; the wizard does - I'm just giving Bob here the answer." Or whatever other handwave is required to make it work.(Of course, it's also perhaps worth noting that the dice sometimes give odd results, too - sometimes the weakling wizard manages to lift something the buff barbarian can't just because of how the dice fall. So some turnaround sounds like it might be fair play anyway!)Ultimately, D&D is a team game, and if the goal here is "challenge the players", I'm not sure it matters which player comes up with the answer - the important thing is that the team gets the satisfaction of beating the challenge.Indeed. That's why I'm trying to put forward a compromise solution:- The mechanics allow the party to do a general search, which will often (but not always) get results. But where the dice don't go their way, that's it - the mechanics won't allow them retries, or more detailed searches, or anything else. After that one roll, it's down to player skill.- At the same time, if the players have been canny, they have (or will) pick up on the clues that allow them to hit on the specific solution to the problem, in which case they are able to solve the problem directly (via application of player skill). But in this instance, they need the specific solution, and not just "I check the statue. I check the table. I check..."The problem of players who manifestly don't have a clue but are just calling out suggestions to fish for a solution is something that the DM really needs to solve, because the mechanics can't. Either the mechanics will let them keep rolling until they find the thing (in which case you might as well just give it to them), or they'll hit on the exact solution and the DM will have to say "no" because they've blown their roll. Neither of these is going to be a satisfactory solution. Basically, the DM has to just have the mandate to say, "moving on..."</blockquote>

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