Poor will saves pummeling the opposition

[Thurbane]

Hi all,

The group I'm coming from consists of a Beguiler, a Knight, a Wizard and Fighter/Cleric. The "problem" I'm having is this: between their spells (especially Confusion) and Kinght's Challenge abilities, all enemies with a low Will save are basically screwed. Unfortuantely, this includes the majority of foes they will face (i.e. humanoids and giants).

Short of throwing hordes Undead, Constructs or spellcasters at them, is there anything I can do to help give the enemy a fighting chance? I don't want to nerf their abilities too much, but I dont want every encounter to be a walkover for them either.

Thanks, T.

 

[hong]

When 4E arrives, this silly convention of giving every creature an Achilles heel will be first against the wall.

In the meantime, use balanced groups of NPCs. Have a wiz who can dispel, a cleric to buff, use counterspelling, etc. Throw in some demons and dragons as well: those have all good saves.

 

[shilsen]

What level are they? Without more info, I would just say that you need to have varied encounters. Some should let them enjoy themselves and others would give them a hard time.

On the Confusion front, remember that a creature affected by it and then targeted by an enemy will automatically target the attacker on its next turn. So if the PCs attack a Confused creature, that effectively nullify the benefits of the Conusion spell.

 

[Thurbane]

Sorry, forgot to mention, 9th level party.

Due to my campaign setting and the area they are currently in, the vast majority of encounters will be humanoids and giants.

 

[Thurbane]

On the Confusion front, remember that a creature affected by it and then targeted by an enemy will automatically target the attacker on its next turn. So if the PCs attack a Confused creature, that effectively nullify the benefits of the Conusion spell.

Really? I never knew that...where does it say that?

[edit]Just checked the SRD...I can't believe I never read that little chestnut before! Looks my party is in for a surprise next session! [/edit]

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Sorry, forgot to mention, 9th level party.

Due to my campaign setting and the area they are currently in, the vast majority of encounters will be humanoids and giants.

Most humanoids would be classed, nonetheless, and they can even have "pets" - find a tough creature with a good Will save, and find a reason for it to associate with gnolls, goblins, or what have you. (The convention of "orcs must be 1st-level" should have died in 2e, but there's some strange reluctance to let orcs, goblins, etc actually take class levels.)

If worst comes to worst, just add more NPCs to suck up the spells. BTW, I'm not a fan of some of the Knights aggro management abilities - mind-control should be supernatural or spell-like.

 

[Victim]

Really? I never knew that...where does it say that?

[edit]Just checked the SRD...I can't believe I never read that little chestnut before! Looks my party is in for a surprise next session! [/edit]

That cuts both ways though. Get one guy with attack nearest, and then his (former) ally counter attacks.

 

[Krafen]

Really? I never knew that...where does it say that?

[edit]Just checked the SRD...I can't believe I never read that little chestnut before! Looks my party is in for a surprise next session! [/edit]

Make sure to warn your players if you plan to change how their abilites have been working.

 

[BASHMAN]

Well, you should have them face enemies with good will saves-- Knights, Sword-Sages, etc. If you are using Bo9S, having a Warblade with the Ironheart Surge and the various Concentration Check = Saving Throw abilities could be a major nuisance to them.

Also, oozes and vermin are immune to all those mind-affecting things, so have at it with those in dungeon crawls.

 

[starwed]

You can always swap out some of the more useless feats Giants get for Iron Will, and perhaps even the PHB2 feat which gives Con to Will saves instead of Wis.

Things like Great Cleave, and Improved Sunder/Bull Rush/Overrun should be swapped for more useful feats if the giants never use them.