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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6208172" data-attributes="member: 4937">I find D&D players have a tendency to exert no thought when attacking things even if the target isn't clearly and objectively evil.I disagree.I make a moral judgment of such a game.  If the game becomes solely 'about killing' then its just glorifying violence and encouraging enjoyment of vicarious murder. Well, yes.  This isn't all bad; in fact it is quite good.  However, you don't have to seek a diplomatic solution in every encounter.  If you encounter a boiling steaming acidic oozing goop, you don't have to have moral quandaries about killing the thing before it digests you.  If it turns out to be a polymorphed prince, well, people will generally forgive you for the misunderstanding.   If you are walking down the road, and a band of gnolls starts pelting you with arrows from the safety of the woods, right of self-defense very much applies and it really doesn't immediately matter if the gnolls are evil or good and this is all some sort of mistake - they are trying to kill you.   And there are plenty of things that are objectively evil where the whole point is you can't usefully bargain with them - for example soul sucking monstrosities from the beyond, incarnated evil spirits, and remorseless undead - "Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead."  It's useful to have things that are both usually evil - say a goblin - and things that are always evil - say a horror spirit.Currently in between slaying undead and the like, the PC's in my campaign are pursuing a cult of necromancers.  They know the cult has been responsible for numerous murders, and indirectly killed thousands of people through its reckless disregard for human life.   Additionally they know that they were pursuing weapons capable of destroying all life on the planet, and believe that they are trying to construct a weapon capable of killing the gods and shattering the barriers between the dimensions - potentially wrecking a 1000 mile swath of the planet.  Further, they know that the necromancers themselves don't believe they are bad guys.  They don't believe their motives are evil.   It doesn't really matter if some of the people in the cult are actually good at heart but just tricked or misguided.  When they burst into the bad guys lair, they have a reasonable presumption that the act of warfare they are engaged in is a just one, and that no quarter need be offered nor will be given.   A soldier knows that often his enemy is as moral, decent, and patriotic as himself - good people can fight for bad causes.   It's not always a question of whether the guy who is trying to kill you is a good guy.  The point is, he's trying to kill you.Even more complex, detecting evil in a goblin is no proof that it is morally right and just to kill it.  If the goblin - or the human - is evil, but poses no threat to you and is guilty of no crime you are aware of, you can't justly play executioner.   This has also been a lesson my PC's have had to learn.   Sure, he's lawful evil - but just because he's a ruthless greedy scoundrel when it comes to business and a true Ebeneezer Scrouge doesn't mean you can kill him, break into his house, steal his stuff, and try to kill his private chaplain.   Who has he ever murdered, and who appointed you judge, jury, and executioner?</blockquote>

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