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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Positive Aspects of 4E
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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 3922734" data-attributes="member: 1465"><p>All of these are positive aspects for me:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Many of the others I don't care much, and now for the ones I dislike:</p><p></p><p>- Players can be meaningful heroes at lvl 1</p><p></p><p>...and players are forbidden to play apprentices characters. This is effectively 1 option less in the game, not 1 more. If you want to be meaningful at the beginning in 3e, start at level 3.</p><p></p><p>- Healing abilities for all classes (and non-reliance on clerics)</p><p></p><p>And why not lots of skills, martial prowess, and arcane spells for all classes? That would mean less reliance on rogues, fighters, and wizards. No thanks, the reliance on clerics is not much worse on the reliance on other character types. Plus, there is always multiclassing if you want some healing powers.</p><p></p><p>- Compound abilities that allow for both needed and fun actions at the same time</p><p></p><p>I think the concept of "needed" is overrated and outdated <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> </p><p></p><p>- Reduced and consolidated skill lists</p><p></p><p>The new skills will certainly work, but I love the flexibility of the 3e skills. I also dislike the idea that because someone thinks James Bond (aka a little good at everything) makes for a great character, then every character should be James Bond.</p><p></p><p>- Classes that are distinct and meaningful.</p><p></p><p>I agree. But this was true in every single edition.</p><p></p><p>- WotC taking a stand on not including classes unless they are quality. Bards are probably my favorite class and I love to include them in my games… but I would much rather wait and have them done right than have another half-baked version released.</p><p></p><p>Makes sense, but it would have made more sense to include all favourite classes and make them high quality at the same time. </p><p></p><p>- Epic levels are built into the core. This should avoid much of the bizarre nature of epic level play.</p><p></p><p>Nonsense. Epic is what you call epic. There is nothing intrinsecally different between epic and pre-epic, only quantitative differences. Now what they call epic is just the last 1/3 of core levels. This doesn't prevent them to later release a supplement that takes PCs to levels 31st-40th and call it "Uber level handbook" just because the word Epic was already used.</p><p></p><p>- No confirming crits. Makes for more cheering moments on the part of the players.</p><p></p><p>I dislike the part that the chance of critting doesn't depend on character's ability.</p><p></p><p>- Rogues can sneak attack undead and other such opponents. Crits work too! Woot!</p><p></p><p>Boring to me. I prefer variety in monsters. This is one piece of variety less.</p><p></p><p>- Paladins can smite <em>anyone</em>! I play more realistic games where not all opponents are evil (and many are neutral built into the system anyways). My paladin player was always frustrated that she couldn’t smite so often. I like this change.</p><p></p><p>Hence now smite should be available to Fighters and everyone else. If it has nothing to do with morals and religion, then it is not a paladin ability.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 3922734, member: 1465"] All of these are positive aspects for me: Many of the others I don't care much, and now for the ones I dislike: - Players can be meaningful heroes at lvl 1 ...and players are forbidden to play apprentices characters. This is effectively 1 option less in the game, not 1 more. If you want to be meaningful at the beginning in 3e, start at level 3. - Healing abilities for all classes (and non-reliance on clerics) And why not lots of skills, martial prowess, and arcane spells for all classes? That would mean less reliance on rogues, fighters, and wizards. No thanks, the reliance on clerics is not much worse on the reliance on other character types. Plus, there is always multiclassing if you want some healing powers. - Compound abilities that allow for both needed and fun actions at the same time I think the concept of "needed" is overrated and outdated :p - Reduced and consolidated skill lists The new skills will certainly work, but I love the flexibility of the 3e skills. I also dislike the idea that because someone thinks James Bond (aka a little good at everything) makes for a great character, then every character should be James Bond. - Classes that are distinct and meaningful. I agree. But this was true in every single edition. - WotC taking a stand on not including classes unless they are quality. Bards are probably my favorite class and I love to include them in my games… but I would much rather wait and have them done right than have another half-baked version released. Makes sense, but it would have made more sense to include all favourite classes and make them high quality at the same time. - Epic levels are built into the core. This should avoid much of the bizarre nature of epic level play. Nonsense. Epic is what you call epic. There is nothing intrinsecally different between epic and pre-epic, only quantitative differences. Now what they call epic is just the last 1/3 of core levels. This doesn't prevent them to later release a supplement that takes PCs to levels 31st-40th and call it "Uber level handbook" just because the word Epic was already used. - No confirming crits. Makes for more cheering moments on the part of the players. I dislike the part that the chance of critting doesn't depend on character's ability. - Rogues can sneak attack undead and other such opponents. Crits work too! Woot! Boring to me. I prefer variety in monsters. This is one piece of variety less. - Paladins can smite [i]anyone[/i]! I play more realistic games where not all opponents are evil (and many are neutral built into the system anyways). My paladin player was always frustrated that she couldn’t smite so often. I like this change. Hence now smite should be available to Fighters and everyone else. If it has nothing to do with morals and religion, then it is not a paladin ability. [/QUOTE]
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