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<blockquote data-quote="dmhelp" data-source="post: 8177247" data-attributes="member: 7025338"><p>I updated the post with my simplified house rules (getting things down to 10 bullet points). Thanks for all the feedback in the past!</p><p></p><p>So including the "prestige cantrips" the spell attack roll cantrip tiers become:</p><p><strong>d12</strong>: Mordenkainen's Sword (60' melee, force, bard/wizard, level 13 minimum), Witch Bolt (30', electric, sorcerer/warlock/wizard)</p><p><strong>d10</strong>: Eldritch Blast (120', agonizing blast), Fire Bolt (120'), Flame Blade (melee), Inflict Wounds (melee), Melf's Acid Arrow (90'), Primal Savagery (melee)</p><p><strong>d8</strong>: Chaos Bolt (120', chance at force or psychic increases at higher level), Chill Touch (120', no healing), Chromatic Orb (90', can change damage type), Guiding Bolt (120', advantage on next attack), Produce Flame (30'), Ray of Frost (60', lose 10' speed), Shocking Grasp (melee, advantage if metal, no reactions)</p><p><strong>d6</strong>: Thorn Whip (melee, pull 10'), Vampiric Touch (melee, half healing)</p><p><strong>d4</strong>: Ray of Sickness (60', con save for poison until end of next turn)</p><p></p><p>And for multisubclassing (single classed only because it would be way too much with multiclassing) this is what I mean by "DM approval/decision on power progression":</p><p>Layout the levels the chosen class gains subclass features (e.g. 3, 7, 11, and 17 for Rogue).</p><p>Player picks two subclasses.</p><p>Do they work mechanically? E.g. you can't pick a Barbarian subclass for Rogue because most of their powers say "while raging".</p><p>Do they work thematically? E.g. a Paladin oath or a caster subclass probably don't make sense on a martial character.</p><p>DM will propose power ladder with input from player (two of the chosen tiers from subclass #1 and two of the chosen tiers from subclass #2).</p><p>At level 3 gains tier 1 subclass 1 power(s) or tier 1 subclass 2 power(s).</p><p>At level 7 gains tier 1 or 2 subclass 1 power(s), or tier 1 or 2 subclass 2 power(s).</p><p>At level 11 gains tier 1, 2, or 3 subclass 1 power(s); or tier 1, 2, or 3 subclass 2 power(s).</p><p>At level 17 gains tier 1, 2, 3, or 4 subclass 1 power(s); or tier 1, 2, 3, or 4 subclass 2 power(s).</p><p>And then I may fudge a little. So for the Druid example I give it is Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 1 & 2, Tier 4. So I cheated a little and gave Exceptional Training as a freeby at Tier 3 Druid because I thought it made sense for them to get Primal Strike (count as magic), Exceptional Training (count as magic), and thematically get Share Spells.</p><p></p><p>Example Variant Subclass Progression:</p><p>• Barbarian Berserker/Zealot could gain @ 3 Frenzy, @ 6 Divine Fury/Warrior of the Gods, @ 10 Zealous Presence, & @ 14 Retaliation</p><p>• Bard Bladesinging would gain @ 3 Training in War and Song/Bladesong (AC bonus = cha mod), @ 6 Extra Attack, & @ 14 choose either Song of Defense or Song of Victory (using charisma)</p><p>• Cleric Trickery/Nature could gain @ 1 Trickery Domain Spells/Blessing of the Trickster, @ 2 Invoke Duplicity, @ 6 Dampen Elements, @ 8 Divine Strike (cold, fire, or lightning) or Blessed Strikes, & @ 17 Improved Duplicity</p><p>• Druid Moon/Beast Master could gain @ 2 Combat Wild Shape/Circle Forms, @ 6 Primal Strike, @ 10 Primal Companion/Exceptional Training, & @ 14 Share Spells</p><p>• Fighter Battle Master/Hunter could gain @ 3 Student of War/Combat Superiority, @ 7 Hunter's Prey, @ 10 Additional Superiority Die/Additional Maneuvers/Improved Combat Superiority, @ 15 Additional Maneuvers/Additional Superiority Die/Relentless, & @ 18 Superior Hunter's Defense</p><p>• Monk Eldritch Knight/Four Elements could gain @ 3 Spellcasting/Weapon Bond, @ 6 Disciple of the Elements/Elemental Disciplines, @ 11 Eldritch Strike, & @ 17 Extra Elemental Discipline</p><p>• Paladin Oath of Vengeance/War could gain @ 3 Oath Spells/Abjury Enemy/Vow of Enmity, @ 7 Divine Strike/War Domain Spells, @ 15 War Priest (using charisma mod), & @ 20 Avenging Angel</p><p>• Ranger Eldritch Knight/Hunter could gain @ 3 Cantrips/Weapon Bond & access to Wizard spells out of their Ranger spells known (but Wizard spells use intelligence) using Ranger spell level progression (so could get up to 5th level Wizard spells @ 17), @ 7 Defensive Tactics, @ 11 Multiattack, & @ 15 Eldritch Strike</p><p>• Rogue Horizon Walker/Thief could gain @ 3 Detect Portal/Planar Warrior, @ 7 Ethereal Step, @ 11 Use Magic Device, & @ 17 Thief's Reflexes</p><p>• Sorcerer Draconic/Evocation could gain @ 1 Dragon Ancestor/Draconic Resilience/Elemental Spells, @ 6 Elemental Affinity, @ 14 Sculpt Spells, & @ 18 Overchannel</p><p>• Warlock Hexblade/Fiend could gain @ 1 Hexblade Expanded Spell List/Hexblade's Curse/Hex Warrior, @ 6 Fiend Expanded Spell List/Dark One's Blessing, @ 10 Fiendish Resilience, & @ 14 Master of Hexes</p><p>• Wizard Divination/Great Old One could gain @ 2 Divination Savant/Portent, @ 6 Expanded Spell List (can transcribe scrolls or learn on level up including other Warlock spells)/Awakened Mind, @ 10 Thought Shield, & @ 14 Greater Portent</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dmhelp, post: 8177247, member: 7025338"] I updated the post with my simplified house rules (getting things down to 10 bullet points). Thanks for all the feedback in the past! So including the "prestige cantrips" the spell attack roll cantrip tiers become: [B]d12[/B]: Mordenkainen's Sword (60' melee, force, bard/wizard, level 13 minimum), Witch Bolt (30', electric, sorcerer/warlock/wizard) [B]d10[/B]: Eldritch Blast (120', agonizing blast), Fire Bolt (120'), Flame Blade (melee), Inflict Wounds (melee), Melf's Acid Arrow (90'), Primal Savagery (melee) [B]d8[/B]: Chaos Bolt (120', chance at force or psychic increases at higher level), Chill Touch (120', no healing), Chromatic Orb (90', can change damage type), Guiding Bolt (120', advantage on next attack), Produce Flame (30'), Ray of Frost (60', lose 10' speed), Shocking Grasp (melee, advantage if metal, no reactions) [B]d6[/B]: Thorn Whip (melee, pull 10'), Vampiric Touch (melee, half healing) [B]d4[/B]: Ray of Sickness (60', con save for poison until end of next turn) And for multisubclassing (single classed only because it would be way too much with multiclassing) this is what I mean by "DM approval/decision on power progression": Layout the levels the chosen class gains subclass features (e.g. 3, 7, 11, and 17 for Rogue). Player picks two subclasses. Do they work mechanically? E.g. you can't pick a Barbarian subclass for Rogue because most of their powers say "while raging". Do they work thematically? E.g. a Paladin oath or a caster subclass probably don't make sense on a martial character. DM will propose power ladder with input from player (two of the chosen tiers from subclass #1 and two of the chosen tiers from subclass #2). At level 3 gains tier 1 subclass 1 power(s) or tier 1 subclass 2 power(s). At level 7 gains tier 1 or 2 subclass 1 power(s), or tier 1 or 2 subclass 2 power(s). At level 11 gains tier 1, 2, or 3 subclass 1 power(s); or tier 1, 2, or 3 subclass 2 power(s). At level 17 gains tier 1, 2, 3, or 4 subclass 1 power(s); or tier 1, 2, 3, or 4 subclass 2 power(s). And then I may fudge a little. So for the Druid example I give it is Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 1 & 2, Tier 4. So I cheated a little and gave Exceptional Training as a freeby at Tier 3 Druid because I thought it made sense for them to get Primal Strike (count as magic), Exceptional Training (count as magic), and thematically get Share Spells. Example Variant Subclass Progression: • Barbarian Berserker/Zealot could gain @ 3 Frenzy, @ 6 Divine Fury/Warrior of the Gods, @ 10 Zealous Presence, & @ 14 Retaliation • Bard Bladesinging would gain @ 3 Training in War and Song/Bladesong (AC bonus = cha mod), @ 6 Extra Attack, & @ 14 choose either Song of Defense or Song of Victory (using charisma) • Cleric Trickery/Nature could gain @ 1 Trickery Domain Spells/Blessing of the Trickster, @ 2 Invoke Duplicity, @ 6 Dampen Elements, @ 8 Divine Strike (cold, fire, or lightning) or Blessed Strikes, & @ 17 Improved Duplicity • Druid Moon/Beast Master could gain @ 2 Combat Wild Shape/Circle Forms, @ 6 Primal Strike, @ 10 Primal Companion/Exceptional Training, & @ 14 Share Spells • Fighter Battle Master/Hunter could gain @ 3 Student of War/Combat Superiority, @ 7 Hunter's Prey, @ 10 Additional Superiority Die/Additional Maneuvers/Improved Combat Superiority, @ 15 Additional Maneuvers/Additional Superiority Die/Relentless, & @ 18 Superior Hunter's Defense • Monk Eldritch Knight/Four Elements could gain @ 3 Spellcasting/Weapon Bond, @ 6 Disciple of the Elements/Elemental Disciplines, @ 11 Eldritch Strike, & @ 17 Extra Elemental Discipline • Paladin Oath of Vengeance/War could gain @ 3 Oath Spells/Abjury Enemy/Vow of Enmity, @ 7 Divine Strike/War Domain Spells, @ 15 War Priest (using charisma mod), & @ 20 Avenging Angel • Ranger Eldritch Knight/Hunter could gain @ 3 Cantrips/Weapon Bond & access to Wizard spells out of their Ranger spells known (but Wizard spells use intelligence) using Ranger spell level progression (so could get up to 5th level Wizard spells @ 17), @ 7 Defensive Tactics, @ 11 Multiattack, & @ 15 Eldritch Strike • Rogue Horizon Walker/Thief could gain @ 3 Detect Portal/Planar Warrior, @ 7 Ethereal Step, @ 11 Use Magic Device, & @ 17 Thief's Reflexes • Sorcerer Draconic/Evocation could gain @ 1 Dragon Ancestor/Draconic Resilience/Elemental Spells, @ 6 Elemental Affinity, @ 14 Sculpt Spells, & @ 18 Overchannel • Warlock Hexblade/Fiend could gain @ 1 Hexblade Expanded Spell List/Hexblade's Curse/Hex Warrior, @ 6 Fiend Expanded Spell List/Dark One's Blessing, @ 10 Fiendish Resilience, & @ 14 Master of Hexes • Wizard Divination/Great Old One could gain @ 2 Divination Savant/Portent, @ 6 Expanded Spell List (can transcribe scrolls or learn on level up including other Warlock spells)/Awakened Mind, @ 10 Thought Shield, & @ 14 Greater Portent [/QUOTE]
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