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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 1293763" data-attributes="member: 553">This exact reason is why my group simply uses a flat DC(AC) of 15 for a crit confirmation roll (the potential fumbler makes an attack roll at the same bonus/penalty as the initial roll).  Using DEX checks and Reflex Saves to check for fumbles, means fighters are more likely to fumble than rogues, bards and monks, which, I believe, shouldn't be the case.Another issue I've seen mentioned before on boards is that, with two-weapon fighting and multiple attacks, fighters actually risk fumbling more often than non-fighters once they reach higher levels. One solution is to use fumble checks only on the first attack in a sequence.Here's the fumble results chart from my campaign:Melee Attacks (roll d20) 01-04: Lose Weapon: your weapon falls 1d4-1 squares from you. Roll d8 for direction 05-08: Drop Defense: you provoke an Attack of Opportunity from the opponent you were attacking 09-12: Wrong Target: Make an attack roll against a random target in your threatened area (friend or foe), using the same modifiers as the initial fumbled attack. The original target is excluded. Note: the Cleave feat does not apply to this result, nor do additional fumble or critical threats 13-16: Sunder: roll normal damage plus modifiers  of opponent's weapon against your own as if making a Sunder attempt 17-19: Injure Self: roll base weapon damage only and apply to self 20: Special: DM's picks, rolls again, or applies any other result he sees fit ----------------------------------------------------------Ranged or Thrown Weapon Attacks (roll d20) 01-04: Drop Ammo: drop ranged weapon's ammo or thrown weapon in your square 05-07: Lose Weapon: thrown weapon slips out of your hand; roll 1d4 for distance in squares, d8 for direction. Ranged weapons are dropped in your square and become unloaded  08-13: Wrong Target: Make an attack roll against a random target (friend or foe) within 20' of the original target, using the same modifiers as the initial fumbled attack. Note: additional fumble or critical threats do not apply to this result 14-17: Sunder: for a bow or crossbow, the string breaks.  All other weapons, roll normal damage plus modifiers as if making a Sunder attempt against the weapon 18-19: Injure Self: roll 1d6 or base weapon damage, whichever is lower, and apply to self 20: Special: DM's picks, rolls again, or applies any other result he sees fit For the Sunder result in melee attacks, I'm thinking about revising to applying opponent's weapon damage, rather than your own.  The Farland campaign site uses that as one of its fumble results.</blockquote>

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