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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5674410" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>I agree with what you say, but I think playing the same encounter over and over again is pointless. Just because WotC wants us to do that does not mean that my group wants us to do that.</p><p></p><p>The encounter doesn't have enough ways to change it so that there are totally new surprises for the players. Just switching around the monsters isn't good enough. Room features have to change. Terrain has to change. Tons of different types of traps should be added. Swallowing a fish has to poison a PC sometimes. In order to keep the players coming back and being interested, glory awards are not enough.</p><p></p><p>My players play to win, not to win glory awards.</p><p></p><p>With a good DM, I don't think any group can get the Speed Demon glory award. Even invisible PCs would take too many rounds to run to the room and take out the BBEG. Is there a low level scrying power that would allow the group to teleport into that room on round two??? I don't know of any low level group teleports or powers that give x-ray vision for a round.</p><p></p><p>With the shortest possible route (and using an action point to keep the door open in round one) and a super lucky strength check to break down the fake door (possibly with a strength boosting power and Aid Another), the PCs could get to the BBEG sometime in early third round (possibly late second round for a speedster, but someone strong needs to get to the fake door early on). Course, they would have 1 to 3 rooms worth of bad guys attacking them in the process more or less unopposed (PCs cannot both run and do attacks and make up that amount of distance).</p><p></p><p>If the goal of my players was just to get that award and they set up their PCs to do that, I wouldn't just let them get it automatically. I'd set up the dungeon to make it tough for them to accomplish that. It's hard to break down the second door if there are two NPCs preventing the PCs from getting next to it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5674410, member: 2011"] I agree with what you say, but I think playing the same encounter over and over again is pointless. Just because WotC wants us to do that does not mean that my group wants us to do that. The encounter doesn't have enough ways to change it so that there are totally new surprises for the players. Just switching around the monsters isn't good enough. Room features have to change. Terrain has to change. Tons of different types of traps should be added. Swallowing a fish has to poison a PC sometimes. In order to keep the players coming back and being interested, glory awards are not enough. My players play to win, not to win glory awards. With a good DM, I don't think any group can get the Speed Demon glory award. Even invisible PCs would take too many rounds to run to the room and take out the BBEG. Is there a low level scrying power that would allow the group to teleport into that room on round two??? I don't know of any low level group teleports or powers that give x-ray vision for a round. With the shortest possible route (and using an action point to keep the door open in round one) and a super lucky strength check to break down the fake door (possibly with a strength boosting power and Aid Another), the PCs could get to the BBEG sometime in early third round (possibly late second round for a speedster, but someone strong needs to get to the fake door early on). Course, they would have 1 to 3 rooms worth of bad guys attacking them in the process more or less unopposed (PCs cannot both run and do attacks and make up that amount of distance). If the goal of my players was just to get that award and they set up their PCs to do that, I wouldn't just let them get it automatically. I'd set up the dungeon to make it tough for them to accomplish that. It's hard to break down the second door if there are two NPCs preventing the PCs from getting next to it. [/QUOTE]
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