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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5691230" data-attributes="member: 2011">You must be thinking of a different adventure. The players are supposed to be told with Lair Assault that this is the idea behind it.It depends on what your players are mature enough to handle. Just tonight, we had a new player who never played 4E before (he played 3E). In one encounter, his defender PC was knocked unconscious round after round after round starting in round one (heal, KO, heal, KO, heal, KO), and he only got 1 attack in during the entire encounter. He was totally cool with it because his PC was doing his job of having foes attack him instead of someone else. As DM, I was watching him closely for signs of frustration and there were none.I know of some players where this would not have been the case. It was cool that he wasn't wrapped all up in the "I lost my turn" stuff and I think we are getting a really good new player. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />I played a scenario 2 months ago where I was running 2 PCs (mine, and a PC that had to be there, but the player couldn't make it last minute). A Beholder attacked the party and in 8 rounds, each PC got one round's worth of actions in. 2 rounds of actions out of 16. I didn't sit and pout about that. I laughed and had fun with the other players as they slowly took the Beholder out.If players are able to do this in normal adventures, why would a DM want to hold their hand in a killer adventure?Now, if you want to play the adventure with a normal goal of some level of fairness to all of the players, that's fine. But that's not the intent of the adventure, nor should it be.Anyone who knew up front going in that this was a possibility? I know that I'd be ok with that. Maybe you should post a poll on it.Are you saying that the game can only be fun (given the upfront premise) if players are given second chances?The point is, sure, the DM can do this. But, he's throwing part of the challenge (what other players might be there for) out the window. With the background given, you are assuming that other players are there to be challenged, but only if the DM doesn't get lucky in round one? Huh? Maybe the other players wanted to still succeed, even though it started off so rough. But, they were not given that chance. The DM fudged (which the module states the DM shouldn't do).I played chess for decades. I was even the editor of the state newsletter. If your opponent hangs his Queen, do you give him a take back?I can definitely understand Lair Assault being used as a tactical training scenario. The thing is though, I'd rather be playing real D&D with fresh new and surprising encounters every session than playing in order to hone my player tactical skills a little. The former is exciting, the latter, not so much. But, I am glad that you are enjoying your sessions. I probably wouldn't after the first time or two. Different strokes.Agreed.</blockquote>

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