Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Potions, Medicine, Special Materials & more...
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8076772" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Thank you. </p><p></p><p>However, most of your advice are entry-level advice. Hopefully you don't believe my wizard player's issues stem from wasting Fireballs on single targets, for instance.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, I don't see them as major game-changers, I'm afraid. After all, the low-level Wizard's problem is that the <strong>spells simply doesn't do enough</strong>, and that's even when used effectively.</p><p></p><p>1. You can't shoot with a bow effectively unless you stick to spells without a material component. (Releasing the bow to get a hand loose for casting is free. Changing your grip back to wield a two-handed weapon with two hands <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=194" target="_blank">requires the Interact action</a>. Do note I'm discussing material components. Somatic components is fine, since they don't require a free hand, only an "unbound" hand)</p><p></p><p>Your advice is sound if you add "Wizards need to take the otherwise-maligned <a href="https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=634" target="_blank">Eschew Materials feat</a>", though.</p><p></p><p>Not sure if there are any decent ranged one-handed weapons alternatives (that remain open to Wizards). Feel free to suggest one though.</p><p></p><p>2. Yes, keeping things for later just doesn't work well in PF2. Use it while it's fresh or you'll quickly find your stuff has gone obsolete.</p><p></p><p>3. Doh!</p><p></p><p>4. Any specific advice?</p><p></p><p>5. Doh!</p><p></p><p>Sorry if this comes off as flippant, but so far my conclusion on how to play a fun powerful Wizard can be boiled down to advice #6:</p><p></p><p><strong>6. Play something else for the first ten levels, then retire that character and start playing a Wizard around level ~10</strong></p><p>(Celtavian isn't the only one saying the situation picks up once you get to the high levels)</p><p></p><p>Your group will thank you... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite24" alt=":unsure:" title="Unsure :unsure:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":unsure:" /> In our experience, a second Fighter (say) would be <strong>much</strong> more helpful for the group at level 1, 5 or 9 than a Wizard. At least if you're playing an official Adventure Path, where the <strong>- by far -</strong> most challenging activity is <strong>winning combats</strong> (without having to rest for ages after each fight).</p><p></p><p>It doesn't help that the adventures at this level never (or at least almost never) relies on magic to get you through. By that I mean that high-level 2E or 3E adventures could come to a screeching halt if the party didn't have the right spell (often related to transportation: teleport, etherealness, passwall... but sometimes divination: speak with dead, scrying... etc). </p><p></p><p>The understandable desire to move away from the LFQW situation of PF1 made Paizo go too far in the other direction, I'm afraid. In PF2 Wizards simply don't offer anything other classes can't do just as well, or better. When a game offers "play one because you want to" as the <em>only</em> reason to pick a certain class, I'm afraid that is a design failure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 8076772, member: 12731"] Thank you. However, most of your advice are entry-level advice. Hopefully you don't believe my wizard player's issues stem from wasting Fireballs on single targets, for instance. Furthermore, I don't see them as major game-changers, I'm afraid. After all, the low-level Wizard's problem is that the [B]spells simply doesn't do enough[/B], and that's even when used effectively. 1. You can't shoot with a bow effectively unless you stick to spells without a material component. (Releasing the bow to get a hand loose for casting is free. Changing your grip back to wield a two-handed weapon with two hands [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=194']requires the Interact action[/URL]. Do note I'm discussing material components. Somatic components is fine, since they don't require a free hand, only an "unbound" hand) Your advice is sound if you add "Wizards need to take the otherwise-maligned [URL='https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=634']Eschew Materials feat[/URL]", though. Not sure if there are any decent ranged one-handed weapons alternatives (that remain open to Wizards). Feel free to suggest one though. 2. Yes, keeping things for later just doesn't work well in PF2. Use it while it's fresh or you'll quickly find your stuff has gone obsolete. 3. Doh! 4. Any specific advice? 5. Doh! Sorry if this comes off as flippant, but so far my conclusion on how to play a fun powerful Wizard can be boiled down to advice #6: [B]6. Play something else for the first ten levels, then retire that character and start playing a Wizard around level ~10[/B] (Celtavian isn't the only one saying the situation picks up once you get to the high levels) Your group will thank you... :unsure: In our experience, a second Fighter (say) would be [B]much[/B] more helpful for the group at level 1, 5 or 9 than a Wizard. At least if you're playing an official Adventure Path, where the [B]- by far -[/B] most challenging activity is [B]winning combats[/B] (without having to rest for ages after each fight). It doesn't help that the adventures at this level never (or at least almost never) relies on magic to get you through. By that I mean that high-level 2E or 3E adventures could come to a screeching halt if the party didn't have the right spell (often related to transportation: teleport, etherealness, passwall... but sometimes divination: speak with dead, scrying... etc). The understandable desire to move away from the LFQW situation of PF1 made Paizo go too far in the other direction, I'm afraid. In PF2 Wizards simply don't offer anything other classes can't do just as well, or better. When a game offers "play one because you want to" as the [I]only[/I] reason to pick a certain class, I'm afraid that is a design failure. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Potions, Medicine, Special Materials & more...
Top