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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 8078721" data-attributes="member: 5834">How do you figure this?As a real game example, my 3rd level fireball hit 4 targets at lvl 7. One succeeded, one failed, and two critically failed. I rolled 22 damage. That was 11, 22, 44, and 44 damage. 121 damage from one fireball in one round at lvl 7. How is a lvl 7 martial matching that damage? How is that not a substantial hit on a group of creatures?Do your players never get critical fails on Spell saving throws leading to double damage from the spell? The critical fail on a saving throw is what changed my mind substantially on AOE damage. When I watched multiple critical fails happen based on random dice rolls and the subsequent damage occur, my mind changed quickly. When the lich in one of the APs wrecked the party with AoE spells and the insane damage from AOE I was shocked. Then when I started using AoE more and seeing those critical fail double damage spells hit, my mind changed on spell saves. You can hit creatures for substantial damage setting them up for quick death and having your aggregate damage easily equal or exceed martial damage with multiple missed saves or critical fails. Where this is not as good is against single target big monsters. Using damage spells against single big target BBEGs shows a real weakness, which is where having other options like a weapon to supplement damage came in. But AOE spells against groups of targets can and has been pretty amazing damage. Damage concentrated on a single foe is not more valuable as fails and critical fails add up. You do huge damage martials cannot touch changing the battlefield substantially. Often martials striking a target already softened by AOE damage means their damage is less valuable as their big hits are mostly wasted as the target is already taken into near death range.When my druid dropped that big fireball, she then sent her animal companion to attack for 14 more points of damage for a 135 point round. A wizard could also fire a bow or take a sword swing if he so chose. Or launch a single action magic missile, though that seems like a waste of a spell to me.You are ally underestimating AOE spells. I hope you get to see some of these critical fail AoE spells soon. Double damage on a multi-dice spells against multiple targets adds up quick.</blockquote>

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