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Message: <blockquote data-quote="airwalkrr" data-source="post: 3325446" data-attributes="member: 12460">I once calculated this out. In the 3e days, PA was rarely ever beneficial from a statistical point of view. I did a sample of typical 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level characters (not min/maxed) and measured them up against a few common foes from the MM fo their level. In most cases, PA was optimal at between -1 and -2. In a few isolated cases (usually oozes and animals), PA was optimal at between -5 and -10. However, one thing my analysis did not account for was that fighting characters were likely to be receiving other bonuses to hit besides that of their equipment and abilities. Bardic music, bull's strength, bless, prayer, heroes' feast, flanking, or tripped, stunned, or held opponents, etc. can make hitting easier and PA more beneficial. I imagine with enough bonuses to hit, PA becomes optimal at higher penalties to hit. However, before such bonuses are factored in, PA was mathematically worthless against many opponents. Maybe that was the point (i.e. PA was only supposed to be useful under certain conditions). Maybe not. Either way, the 3.5 development team must have decided that it was not the point because they decided to make it better.In 3.5, I did a similar, although more limited analysis with only 5th and 10th level characters. PA is now useful for two-handed fighters, but just as worthless for one-handed fighters. PA is often useful in the -3 to -4 range, a +6 to +8 to damage against most opponents given a reasonably competent fighting character build. There are now also far more opportunities where using PA to maximal effect is mathematically advantageous.PA in 3.5 is one of the proud nails as far as I am concerned. I agree it was only marginally useful in 3e, but that single rule change (along with floaty shield) has created a huge paradigm shift in the way fighting characters are built. The only builds that are seen as effective these days are two-handed weapon wielders, and it is all due to the PA change. I recommend that DMs fix it for their own campaigns. The 1.5 fix is highly recommended.</blockquote>

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