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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7724888" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Sounds like Subtractive Design. There's definitely a significant value to saying "does this rule bring more value then the weight of it". But it does not mean complexity is bad - it means that needless complexity is bad. I could cut down all conflict resolution in an RPG to an unbiased coin flip - and some people would have a great time RPing and adventuring, and some DMs good at failing forward so the results of both sides of the coin were different, meaningful, and fun. But for all that, you'll probably engage more people if you increase the complexity.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, a game with 70 levels may mean it just has more granularity. How many things advance your standard D&D level? Well, you usually get a feature. Sometimes more than one, let's call it 1.5. Oh, and HD. Oh, and every few levels your proficiency goes up, so that's light 1/4 of a bonus a level. But proficiency helps to hit (1) , and trained saves (2) , and caster DCs (.5 - only half the classes), and skills (4-5) - if we broke all of those out it would be like 8 every couple of levels. Taken all together, maybe it's 12 things every 4 levels (or an average of 3 things per level) - and if you wanted more granularity you could expand 5e to 60 levels. At this level one skill goes up +1. At this level you gain a HD. At this level you get a class feature. At this level one of your two trained skills gets +1. It would be the same amount of bonuses but more levels. Now, would that be more complex or actually easier since there is so little to worry about changing at any given advance? If you're getting a skill point in a tree and each step can take up to 5 points, what it really means is they wanted a lot of gradations because, you know, people like to be rewarded for playing RPG games by advancing in level. So they make it happen more often, but actually give you only a little each advance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7724888, member: 20564"] Sounds like Subtractive Design. There's definitely a significant value to saying "does this rule bring more value then the weight of it". But it does not mean complexity is bad - it means that needless complexity is bad. I could cut down all conflict resolution in an RPG to an unbiased coin flip - and some people would have a great time RPing and adventuring, and some DMs good at failing forward so the results of both sides of the coin were different, meaningful, and fun. But for all that, you'll probably engage more people if you increase the complexity. On the other hand, a game with 70 levels may mean it just has more granularity. How many things advance your standard D&D level? Well, you usually get a feature. Sometimes more than one, let's call it 1.5. Oh, and HD. Oh, and every few levels your proficiency goes up, so that's light 1/4 of a bonus a level. But proficiency helps to hit (1) , and trained saves (2) , and caster DCs (.5 - only half the classes), and skills (4-5) - if we broke all of those out it would be like 8 every couple of levels. Taken all together, maybe it's 12 things every 4 levels (or an average of 3 things per level) - and if you wanted more granularity you could expand 5e to 60 levels. At this level one skill goes up +1. At this level you gain a HD. At this level you get a class feature. At this level one of your two trained skills gets +1. It would be the same amount of bonuses but more levels. Now, would that be more complex or actually easier since there is so little to worry about changing at any given advance? If you're getting a skill point in a tree and each step can take up to 5 points, what it really means is they wanted a lot of gradations because, you know, people like to be rewarded for playing RPG games by advancing in level. So they make it happen more often, but actually give you only a little each advance. [/QUOTE]
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