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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7724985" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Except for the odd choice of 'tactical' as label - "Power X" might have nothing to do with combat, could be to do with traveling, solving mysteries, or whatever - that's sounding reasonably Effects-based. That and 'realistic' or 'accurate' being highly optional. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> You can use an effects based system to create an accurate simulation, you just need to be very careful that you invariably map the effects to something that would 'realistically' cause them. Hero is a good example. You could use it that way, but it was developed for Champions! a super-hero game, a genre not notable for a high degree of realism.</p><p></p><p> You can certainly use an effects-based system to generate a list, or add to a list. The list could become infinite, in theory. It wouldn't experience power creep, because the system isn't being added to. </p><p></p><p>That's distinct from list-based, a 'list based' system adds to the /system/ as you expand the list. So if you can already kill people, and already have knives, guns, & chainsaws that do that, adding poison or a flaming sword in an effects-based system doesn't add to the system, even if the mechanics may be used a little differently to get there. OTOH, in a list-based system, adding a flaming sword might add a new column to the physical attack matrix and a new way of determining damage, maybe even require adding whole new sub-system for magic, while adding poison might add a mechanic with not even cursory similarity to the attack-resolution sub-systems already in use. List-based systems get very arbitrary and unwieldy. </p><p></p><p>Where there's maybe overlap is when a list-based system gets tired of coming up with new crap, and decides the next new thing "counts as" something it already has. Poison gets a new sub-system, but the flaming sword "counts as a chainsaw..." </p><p>...or when an effects based system hides 'behind a curtain' and the publisher charges you for each new 'skin' they put on the effects.</p><p></p><p> OK, I can see how that's "Narrative" (and even almost Freestyle) but were does 'wrapper' come into it?</p><p></p><p></p><p>"Narrative Wrapper" sounds almost like the old Champions! concept of the 'special effect.' Here's the power, an EB, but there's a special effect when you use it, a bolt of lightning. Sounds like 'wrapping' the mechanic in a 'narrative' (I was in a radiation accident at the nuclear power plant, now my mutant powers let me generate bolts of lighting!)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7724985, member: 996"] Except for the odd choice of 'tactical' as label - "Power X" might have nothing to do with combat, could be to do with traveling, solving mysteries, or whatever - that's sounding reasonably Effects-based. That and 'realistic' or 'accurate' being highly optional. ;) You can use an effects based system to create an accurate simulation, you just need to be very careful that you invariably map the effects to something that would 'realistically' cause them. Hero is a good example. You could use it that way, but it was developed for Champions! a super-hero game, a genre not notable for a high degree of realism. You can certainly use an effects-based system to generate a list, or add to a list. The list could become infinite, in theory. It wouldn't experience power creep, because the system isn't being added to. That's distinct from list-based, a 'list based' system adds to the /system/ as you expand the list. So if you can already kill people, and already have knives, guns, & chainsaws that do that, adding poison or a flaming sword in an effects-based system doesn't add to the system, even if the mechanics may be used a little differently to get there. OTOH, in a list-based system, adding a flaming sword might add a new column to the physical attack matrix and a new way of determining damage, maybe even require adding whole new sub-system for magic, while adding poison might add a mechanic with not even cursory similarity to the attack-resolution sub-systems already in use. List-based systems get very arbitrary and unwieldy. Where there's maybe overlap is when a list-based system gets tired of coming up with new crap, and decides the next new thing "counts as" something it already has. Poison gets a new sub-system, but the flaming sword "counts as a chainsaw..." ...or when an effects based system hides 'behind a curtain' and the publisher charges you for each new 'skin' they put on the effects. OK, I can see how that's "Narrative" (and even almost Freestyle) but were does 'wrapper' come into it? "Narrative Wrapper" sounds almost like the old Champions! concept of the 'special effect.' Here's the power, an EB, but there's a special effect when you use it, a bolt of lightning. Sounds like 'wrapping' the mechanic in a 'narrative' (I was in a radiation accident at the nuclear power plant, now my mutant powers let me generate bolts of lighting!) [/QUOTE]
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