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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7725064" data-attributes="member: 996">Another example, though only of a sub-system, not a whole game, would be sphere magic in M:tA.&nbsp; There's 9 spheres of 5 levels each, they cover everything prettymuch the universe of possible effects.&nbsp; You can use sphere magic in combat, particularly time magic before combat for extra actions for instance, but it's generally quite adequate to just shoot the other guy, and going 'vulgar' with a lightning bolt is not only not a lot deadlier it's not so easy on you.&nbsp; So sphere magic gets used for a lot of non-combat applications, particularly, since it's low-level, for magical senses.Sounds more what I'd consider list-based.&nbsp; An effects-based system that couldn't handle 'psionics' yet also couldn't handle a lot of magic yet, for instance.&nbsp; When an effects-bases system 'expands' it ends up being a book of ideas and examples and genre conventions - no new mechanics to speak of.&nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Channel&quot; seems to me to capture that idea a lot better.&nbsp; 'Wrapper' sounds more like something that conceals a reality underneath and/or will be casually discarded later......but I think I get it now.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7725064, member: 996"] Another example, though only of a sub-system, not a whole game, would be sphere magic in M:tA. There's 9 spheres of 5 levels each, they cover everything prettymuch the universe of possible effects. You can use sphere magic in combat, particularly time magic before combat for extra actions for instance, but it's generally quite adequate to just shoot the other guy, and going 'vulgar' with a lightning bolt is not only not a lot deadlier it's not so easy on you. So sphere magic gets used for a lot of non-combat applications, particularly, since it's low-level, for magical senses. Sounds more what I'd consider list-based. An effects-based system that couldn't handle 'psionics' yet also couldn't handle a lot of magic yet, for instance. When an effects-bases system 'expands' it ends up being a book of ideas and examples and genre conventions - no new mechanics to speak of. "Channel" seems to me to capture that idea a lot better. 'Wrapper' sounds more like something that conceals a reality underneath and/or will be casually discarded later... ...but I think I get it now. [/QUOTE]

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