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<blockquote data-quote="Arc" data-source="post: 2414198" data-attributes="member: 12184">I think the problem is that you're playing with poor optimizers, not that you're playing with optimizers at all. A good optimizer will do all the odd prestige class dips and character optimization tricks, but will do it unoptrusively. He'll whip major butt, but also defer to other characters when their strengths come into play. Sure, he's amazing in combat/certain skill checks/certain situations (depending on the build), but he doesn't try to be everything. I think what you're dealing with is inexperianced, immature optimizers. Don't dismiss them because they haven't had enough practice to learn how to do it unobtrusively, but push them along toward that. After all, don't your other players hold up the game to look up rules and double check their rolls?Also - no optimizer who cares enough about his power attack mod won't have a graphing calculator ready with the formula to figure it out&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Arc, post: 2414198, member: 12184"] I think the problem is that you're playing with poor optimizers, not that you're playing with optimizers at all. A good optimizer will do all the odd prestige class dips and character optimization tricks, but will do it unoptrusively. He'll whip major butt, but also defer to other characters when [i]their[/i] strengths come into play. Sure, he's amazing in combat/certain skill checks/certain situations (depending on the build), but he doesn't try to be everything. I think what you're dealing with is inexperianced, immature optimizers. Don't dismiss them because they haven't had enough practice to learn how to do it unobtrusively, but push them along toward that. After all, don't your other players hold up the game to look up rules and double check their rolls? Also - no optimizer who cares enough about his power attack mod won't have a graphing calculator ready with the formula to figure it out ;) [/QUOTE]

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