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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 3755849" data-attributes="member: 3586">Klaus, the very fact you have "Secondary Combat" there as a role displays a problem. Give a player a choice: "Do you want to play a Primary Combat character or a Secondary Combat character?" So, one is better than the other... why do you want to play a Secondary Combat character again?You've got a good bunch of descriptors for the roles in D&D, but they're lousy at describing what the primary focus of each character should be - especially in combat.Like it or not, in D&D, over half the time is likely to be spent in one combat or another. (It's also the time the system mechanics come into play most strongly, so you'd better make sure they work). Thus, a huge part of doing an effective character design is giving a class a strong role it can fulfill in combat, and doing so the player can choose effective and enjoyable options each round.That's the problem with the cleric casting heal. Sure, it's effective, but it's not enjoyable for the player, who sees his friends hitting the monsters with swords and blowing them up with fireballs.Looking at your roles, which ones are going to be effective and fun in combat? I'll bold the ones that I think are strong roles, and italic the weak ones, because they're either superceded by another role, or don't actually do anything active.Primary Combat: High BAB, High AC, High hp, High damage outputSecondary Combat: Helps Primary CombatOpportunistic Combat: Archery or mobility oriented, but low staying power - with provisos.Magic Artillery: Big BOOM spellsSupport Magic: Buffs, counterspells, divination, transportReconaissance: Sneaks around and/or asks questions, wilderness survival, avoids party being surprisedHealing: Cure wounds, removes poison, dispels adverse effectsTrap-dealing: Finds and disarms traps, mundane and magicalUndead-dealing: Turns undead and/or protects party from undead abilities... this isn't a role in itself.Have you noticed the ones I've bolded? In order, they're Tank, Striker and Controller under the new system. The one that is missing is Leader, and that's because the current "Leader" role is done really badly. I expect it'll be a combination of Secondary Combat + Healing + Buffs, but done in a manner that keeps it enjoyable for the player.Undead-dealing isn't a good descriptor, btw. It exists because of the cleric, but you could quite easily say "Dragon-dealing" or "Humanoid Dealing" or "Evil Outsider Dealing" because there are certainly prestige classes that fulfill such tasks, and there's also the Ranger to think of. It's more a special feature of the class rather than a role as such.Cheers!</blockquote>

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