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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Trickstergod" data-source="post: 2060707" data-attributes="member: 10825">Generally speaking, for human nobility types, at least, I go with a high Charisma and a class range of around 4-8, with a focus on Aristocrat and Skill Focus feats. Because you know what? Raw power doesn't mean anyone will listen to you, short of a threat of death. Take 4 characters, 3 of whom are level 20 PC classes that aren't particularly Charisma and Diplomacy based, then a level 3 character with a high Charisma, maxed out Diplomacy (and a few complimentary skills to that) and a Skill Focus feat or two for social skills, and the level 20 characters would be taking orders from the level 3 character. It's a matter of simple social dynamics. The most confident, most well-spoken person with the most forceful personality will take the position of leadership because others will listen to him, even if his ideas aren't very good. If anything, he'll just coopt the ideas of brighter people and make them his own. It's a common fantasy theme, anyway; the kind of dumb, but gregarious leader, with the rather bright, magical fellow behind the throne. Arthur and Merlin, the Sultan and Ja'afar and so on. Now, some might question this example, but I will say, from LARP'ing experience, this is the sort of thing that happens all the time. While those charismatic players usually wind up getting personally powerful, anyway, from being able to finagle NPC's and the like, they still swiftly take a position of leadership over people sometimes 5-10 times their level at the beginning of things.Of course, in light of teleportation and scrying and the like, if having that sort of thing as a common threat floats your boat (it doesn't float mine), a level 6 Aristocrat, 18 Charisma king might seem far too fragile. Still, doesn't matter. The people who wouldn't be so fragile would be the folk who wind up protecting said Aristocrat. The person who gets listened to winds up leading, not the one who can blast phalanxes down with eldritch fire. Even cases of restricted leadership, like a mage-based oligarchy, would have the leadership positions filled by the more charismatic individuals of the order as opposed to the most powerful. Unless of course the government has silly rules about leadership such as standardized testing or being able to cast such and such a spell or duels to the death - in which case, the government wouldn't likely live long due to instability and a number of ineffectual leaders. It's important that a leader can smooth-talk and not get relegated to the back of a crowd during a conversation. If anything, the classes that would naturally gravitate to leadership positions should be the Bard or Rogue. A Sorcerer lakes the skill base to be a decent leader (no Diplomacy, though Bluff is helpful), while most Clerics will generally come short in either Charisma or social skills (same thing with Paladins). Sure, a high level Wizard or Sorcerer might be able to keep certain key figures constantly charmed or what not, but those figures would still, in all likelihood, act as the social face for the mage. So the mage might as well just act as an "advisor," even if it's only in name. However, I will add that, yeah, sometimes it's cool to get into a knock down, drag out fight with the evil leader guy. In which case, he probably is someone to fear. Similarly, other, non-human races are also likely to have different types of leaders. However, when it comes to leaders that I don't intend to have in combat with the PC's (and even sometimes when I do; that's what champions are for, after all), then they're usually some mix of Aristrocrat and Fighter, around level 4-8, with a high Charisma and Skill Focus feats in social skills. Even taking into account skill prowess equating to level, level 6 alone can grant a +16 to the integral skills when you throw in Skill Focus and a high Charisma or the like. Take into account synergy bonuses, double skill feats on top of Skill Focus and specifically being built as a leader as opposed to a dungeon crawler, and it becomes fairly easy to have a relatively low-level leader that still has the skill to govern nations. I think gamers all too often underestimate the ability to politic, be listened to and be, well, Charismatic, even in light of magic.</blockquote>

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