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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7627826" data-attributes="member: 6716779">Very sure in my OP I excluded point buy, and referred to the default array. If you are willing to soak up 3 dump stats and then later on run into having to choose to buff strength or wisdom.  Remember by level 8 or 12 you will have a 20 wisdom and 2 feats. Well maybe not knowledge.  You have to have a 20 in one or two 18s and 3 8s. Mr Stickman has a 20, 14, 14, 12, 10, and 8 to play with. Stickman is better in combat IMHO and a lot better outside of it assuming both clerics are using guidance.   The nature cleric can skip magic initiate and takes PAM.  The others will skip it, maybe take it later or take a different feat. A level 1 PAM nature cleric in medium armor isn't a bad deal. I would probably take warcaster over asi if I was planning on using spiritual guardians melee build. The 3 builds.Nature cleric, PAM lvl 1.Arcana cleric. Magic initiate, GFB. Every other type of cleric Magic initiate.  All will probably take warcaster lvl 4 or 8. As previous poster stated only arcane cleric can get gfb keyed off wisdom. At level 8 they can double stack their wisdom modifier on it.I have also seen war, tempest, death, life clerics in action. None of them impressed me in melee, the light cleric was good at being a spellcaster.Also what if you're not picking the best domains? My magic initiate trickster or knowledge cleric would work alright yes?</blockquote>