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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7628228" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Even at level 6 you can use spiritual weapon and spirit guardians both in 3 fights per day.  Spells that last the entire encounter are very efficient.More importantly though, I'm not even asking you to consider doing this every fight, just in the extremely hard fights where it's really going to matter. But that doesn't stop the criticism that when someone points out something better than yours at low level that you immediately reference a higher level and when someone points out something better than you at higher level that you immediately reference a lower level.  That's called goal post shifting and it's quite frustrating when to be in a discussion where that constantly happens. Just to make it clear - you are only looking at standard array.  That's a fascinating restriction but whatever...You previously agreed that it's more optimized at level 4 to take resilient con or warcaster.  A build with 13 con is a great candidate for resilient con over warcaster.  Just assume that is taken at level 4 instead of warcaster.This puts both the heavy armor master cleric and yours with shileleagh in the same 16 main attack stat and con fix feat boat.  The difference is that my feat choice has actually mattered for levels 1+.  On your build, you literally get very limited benefit from until level 8 and even at that point the benefit isn't really much more than my non-shileleagh cleric.  I mean we don't even have a +1 mod advantage in attack stat till level 8.It takes level 8 for your build to obtain 18 wisdom.  My builds will have 18 str / 16 wis or 18 wis / 16 str.  In the tier we are talking about you are realistically only ahead on either attacks or spells by +1 and that's only once you near the end of your expected leveling curve.  My build has the better early game feat with Heavy Armor Master.  Your build doesn't really benefit from it's feat choice till level 8...</blockquote>

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