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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7628968" data-attributes="member: 6750235"> Spiritual weapon is a single spell slot that last the entire encounter and doesn't take concentration.  Using that in the bonus slot has nothing to do with the 5MWD arguments because it has the opposite effect.  It's a good way to save spell slots and do more damage. I'm one of the people who argues the 5MWD isn't a real thing because the DM ultimately controls pacing and not the players so it's a bit odd to see that argument thrown at me based on that particular spell. So you're making assumptions the game will start at 1st level (tbf mine usually do) when I've seen many start higher and then make assumptions on the upper limits of the game.  Both assumptions are geared to your argument when I've played games that started at 20th level. While it's true that a lot of games don't get to high levels, it's not safe to assume the specific game of the power gamer will not.  IME, power gamers build with the expectation they will be reaching higher levels where the powerful abilities are going to be seen. How is your choice to not bother with potent spellcaster clerics applicable to claiming all clerics should take human variant and arcane initiate demonstrate that all clerics should do this from a power gaming PoV per your OP?  That looks like "you should do this but I wouldn't". 1.  It's the same non-stat bump you were taking with war caster. 2.  It only matters if there aren't enough ASI's to bump STR to where a person needs it.  That build caps with 20 STR and 20 WIS if that's the approach the character wants to take.  Either can be dropped to 18 and still be effective, tbh, by using another solid feat.  WIS is less important for many clerics focused on melee because they use buffs and healing.  A STR / WIS cleric is the same as a STR / CHA paladin.  Your argument for clerics in general has 18 WIS at best after taking arcane initiate and war caster.  At best I would have gone with point buy had 20 STR, 16 WIS, and 16 CON.  With point spread I would still have the matching 18 STR and 16 WIS by going HAM.</blockquote>

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