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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GlassJaw" data-source="post: 1688209" data-attributes="member: 22103">First off, a discussion like this will always be "flawed" because people's definitions of powergaming and min/maxing will vary.That said, all RPG's at their core have a system for becoming more powerful and increasing one's abilites.  In most cases this is defined by levels.  Part of the fun of RPG's is developing your character and gaining these abilities.  Is this powergaming?  Most people would say no but it is human nature to want to succeed.  I would argue that even the most ardent role-players don't want to play in a campaign where the is no chance for them to succeed.I have no problem with players that want to create characters that are good at what they do.  Playing an effective character at the table is important to most people.  This is my definition of min/maxing.  Min/maxers (of which there are varying degress) have no problems with character flaws or weaknesses but they want to be able to do at least one thing effectively.  Again, people's definition's may vary.  I think the line gets crossed is when the desire to play an effective or powerful character gets in the way of other people's enjoyment at the table.  This is the basis of my definition of powergaming.  This is someone who wants their character to do it all at the expense of other's enjoyment.  They want to "win" the game but having the most toys or by doing the most damage.What determines these play styles in each gamer?  That's very tough to say.  A lot of it probably has to do with age.  I know for myself as I play more and more, I'm less and less interested in crunchy stuff and more interested in creating quality adventures for my players and playing characters with interesting concepts.  That's not to say that I don't enjoy the mechanical side of the game (most of the people I play with probably consider me the rules lawyer and I'm ok with that).You background and eduation might be a factor as well.  My guess would be that those with a technical background may be more inclined to min/max whereas those with a liberal arts background wouldn't.  This is just a generalization and I have no real proof to support this.I also think the amount of time you spend playing or have played is relative as well.  I play with some casual gamers who know the rules but probably don't spend a lot of time outside our once a week session on reading the books or posting on message boards.  Their goal in each session is to have fun, laugh at dirty jokes, each some junk food, and kill some stuff.  Gaining levels and finding new items are two main goals.  I also play in a group where everyone has been playing for a long time, reads and buys rule books, and posts on the boards.  There is fair amount of min/maxing in the group but it's also very cerebral and there is much more role-playing.  And you know what?  Both play styles are a blast.I have no idea if this went anywhere or stayed on topic.  I just kepy typing.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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