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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Patlin" data-source="post: 3697648" data-attributes="member: 17264"><p>You don't think putting the 4 or 18 into strength effects whether or not your results will be above or below the 'expected norm' for the level? I'm afraid I don't understand your definition of powergaming then.  You'd have to agree that either placement is legitimate, and that it's clearly the players choice (given the 4d6 and arange system I've posited for purpose of the argument) which one to choose.  One is simply more effective for the designated role than the other.  Character creation contains hundreds of decision like this, and I can understand how you could say that any one decision doesn't tell the whole story, but the reasons for prefering the 18 in strength and the 4 in charisma for a Barbarian character instead of the other way around seem to be what you describe in your definition.</p></blockquote><p></p>