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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mudlock" data-source="post: 5556504" data-attributes="member: 95211">What books did players A and B look in when making their characters?If they only had PH1-3, while C is picking feats out of HotF* and dozens of other sources (or the character builder) then, yeah, C is going to come out looking a little ahead; some of the newer feats are quite good when compared to the older stuff. If A and B have access to the same stuff, but just don't have the interest to wade through 3,000 feats for the gems, that could explain it too.Also, what books are YOU using? Paragon is where the weakness of MM1 and MM2 monsters start to become apparent. That could be contributing to your problems. The fix is to get MM3 or MV. (Or are you using published adventures? Those are something of a let-down, challenge wise, as well.)Finally, your claim that C called the warden "overpowered" is a flashing warning sign; they're not, but they are certainly better at defense than any controller could be. It sounds like what C really means by "overpowered" is "better at something than my character is". Part of the design goal of 4e is to encourage teamwork; that's why roles exist, to wall-off the duties of combat so that every character (and player) gets to shine. C has made a rather high-damage controller with some good "get out of jail" escape ability, but even a crappy warden will do a better job of standing toe-to-toe with the enemy and refusing to yield. If he's not comfortable with that, if he's trying to build a single lone-wolf perfect-at-everything character, and he gets upset when that illusion gets fractured, than your problem isn't mechanical.</blockquote>

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