(PR review) Hackmaster: Quest for the Unknown

[Mouseferatu]

Well, I was one of the winners of last Tuesday's Kenzer products contest. (My review of Deathright, a KoK module, will be forthcoming in a few days.)

Before I discuss Quest for the Unknown, a Hackmaster module, there are a few points and disclaimers.

One: I do not own, and have never read, the Hackmaster core books. I'm familiar with the game from KotD, these boards, and flipping through it at the store.

Two: I never read the original D&D module, Into the Unknown, on which this is based. So in both cases, I'm really going into this blind.

Quick "plot" summary: the heroes investigate an abandoned dungeon lair of two missing adventurers, and loot it for all it's worth, killing many critters in the process.

That's all there is. That's all you should expect from Hackmaster; even I know that much.

Now, one of the reasons I've never really looked into Hackmaster is that I could never think of a good reason why. I've always been a little unclear on whether it's intended primarily as a parody/joke game, or whether it's intended as a recreation (with modifications, of course) of older editions of D&D, with some various bits of humor tacked on.

Judging by Quest for the Unknown, even the writers aren't entirely sure. It tries to be both, and in so doing, falls short at accomplishing either.

Don't get me wrong. There are good points to this module. If you're nostalgic for the feel of 1st edition, QftU has it in spades. It's actually got more 1st edition feel than Necromancer Games products.

(This is not a shot at Necromancer. I've enjoyed several of their modules.)

Unfortunately, it often accomplishes that feel through arbitrary use of dice and tables, making up numbers on the fly, and a lack of a comprehensive or consistent system for resolving checks and saves. Yeah, 1st edition had that. It's one of the many improvements in D&D 3e that it doesn't do that anymore.

The writing is moderately above average, although I cringed at the vast numbers of basic typos and grammar manglings throughout. (Repeat after me, please. "An en-dash is not the same thing as a hyphen. An en-dash is not the same thing as a hyphen.")

The problem, again, comes back to the fact that the module--and, as best I can tell, the entire game--doesn't know what it is. It's not funny enough all the way through to be primarily parody, although it has its moments. The first few times the tone of the book got arrogant and, well, 1st edition-y, it was funny. "The setting is neither too simple nor too difficult. It has been well tested. If there is a problem it lies with you or more likely your players." I laughed at that.

It got irritating pretty quickly, though.

Many of the encounters are relatively serious. Too many, if the game is primarily a parody. On the other hand, if the game is supposed to be a "real" RPG--even one with substantial amounts of humor--there are too many silly interruptions.

Overall, I'd say this. It was a relatively fun read. I don't know that I'd be interested in playing this module, though. Furthermore, I think the module's inability to decide what it really is has prevented it from reaching its full potential as either a parody or a hack-intensive RPG.

I still ask myself, "Why Hackmaster?" Quest for the Unknown didn't answer me. If I want 1st edition nostalgia, I'll reread my old modules. When it comes to game play, I'll stick with D&D 3e.

 

[AEgyptLionGoddess]

Review of Quest For The Unknown

Okay, I'm not a professional product evaluator, I'm simply someone who likes gaming. So, for what it's worth, my evaluation of the HackMaster product, "Quest for the Unknown," follows. I enjoyed it.
The art was interesting. The cover art was simplistic, but it was a good indication of the good-natured romp inside. The maps inside were large and legible. There's nothing more frustrating than trying to play a game and having trouble figuring out the maps. The inside art ranged from impressive drawings of the creatures to more simplistic and spoof art whenever characters were involved.
Now for the tone of the product. It was a good natured romp. This product is/was for roleplaying what Scary Movie was for horror flicks. It was very tongue in cheek and didn't take itself seriously. Having fun seemed to be the major theme of the product. From the diary of Melanee to some smart-alecky magic mouths, I actually giggled out loud. This would be an excellent product for first time gamers, or those who play the game to have fun and not have all-powerful, all-wise characters who must be perfect. When I was gaming with my teens, I would have enjoyed playing many of the monsters-especially the Trash Orge. (I must wonder however, if the creators of this product had a hidden camera in my oldest son's room, but I digress).
All in all, it was time very well spent. It makes me wonder if the rest of their products is as tongue in cheek. Of course, the name of the product "HackMaster", makes me think that the idea is distinctly possible. There's plenty of gore and chances to die scattered along the way of the adventure. There are few really hard puzzles or brain teasers which the more experienced player might desire. It is a straight-forward blood bath of an adventure, and something teenaged boys would enjoy in the same way they enjoy high action movies with no socially redeeming value at all. There are no people to save in the product, no dire consequences, no lessons to learn, no ultimate lesson. All in all, it was a refreshing romp that appeared to consist of killing as many creatures as possible and getting away with as much loot as possible. Sometimes, a summer movie, popcorn flick is a refreshing change. And sometimes, "greed is good."

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hey, I see you're in Texas. Not in or around Austin by any chance, are you?

And hey, I like tongue-in-cheek. I just think QftU was either not tongue-in-cheek enough, or too tongue-in-cheek. It failed to find a balance.

But hey, that's just me, and I'm as imbalanced as anyone, so...

 

[Richards]

I was one of the winners on the Tuesday night giveaway as well, but I still haven't got my copy. I just don't want anyone to think I'm slacking off; when I get it, I'll post a review of my own.

Johnathan

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have Quest for the Unknown (bought it, as I have all HackMaster products). I will say that, while it is a good HM module, very much in the spirit of early AD&D and the original upon which it is based, it is not as strong an offering as other HM products. This is unfortunate, but not unexpected; the sheer value of the Player's Handbook and Game Master's Guide (enormous books packed with material, much more substantive than even the 3e core books, and only $30 each; sure they're softback, but I'd rather have reading matter than hardcovers), and the sustained level of great writing assured that it would take a helluva lot to measure up.

I honestly think that there are just some people who won't "get" HackMaster. That's not a knock on them. HM treads a fine line - sure it's both a parody and a satire, but it really is a playable game. As someone on these boards once said (I forget who), HackMaster isn't a joke gussied up with game mechanics; it's a game with a sense of humor. That doesn't mean that if you don't "get" HM, that you have no sense of humor. It just means that it's not your kind of humor.

Quest for the Unknown is a solid introductory module for HM. It's better to read if you already know and like HM, though. I'll second Mouseferatu; this module really does do 1e better than just about anything else I've seen, down to the blue maps on the inside covers (blue because that made the old modules difficult to photocopy. *sigh* I get all misty thinking of the love and trust that TSR and its customers shared way back when). But be warned - if you dislike 1e, and don't like often braod parodies, then QftU, and HM, for that matter, are probably not for you.

I just got Little Keep on the Borderlands, a massive adventure/campaign setting for HM. Based on the old Keep on the Borderlands, this is the product Kenzer should've led off with to support HM. Big, well-organized, fun to read, and with a lot of really nice NPC write-ups. It even has a place for the QftU module to fit in. $18 US - this is a great deal on a book fo this size and content.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

just got my copy as well

I have to say, I love the illustrations --- they are almost all of monsters beating up or munching on hapless adventurers. I haven't had much of a chance to thoroughly read the module yet, but on my initial glance-through I have to admit that the Mouse is right --- it's not obviously funny, yet I can't imagine why I would want to play this. It is a nice throw back to 1e, but right now, I'm running (and converting) the 1e Temple of Elemental Evil, and that's as old-school as you can get.

It's fun, but I can't imagine parting with real dollars for this. I'm sorry Noah, but I gotta be honest.

Oh yeah, and I don't own any HackMaster products other than this, so I can't say how it compares to other products in the line.

 

[Harlequin]

My Quest for the Unknown Review

First i would like to thank Kenzer and Co and Noah for the opportunity to have a look at their Hackmaster Product.

Im an aussie and i only just got them today

Im an old 1E player and when i opened up the module and saw those BIG beautiful BLUE maps i was back at home

This module really gives you the feeling that your playing something cool and nostalgic and it would kind of add to the fun of playing it.

I am unfamiliar with the rules of Hackmaster 4th Edition so i dont know about gameplay mechanics but after reading thru the module here are my opinions:

* The artwork is very cool and has that old school feeling. I like the gore and blood and it just makes the feel of play a little more hardcore.

*Some very cool monsters in the module which im sure would be convertable over to 3E but looking at the back of the module i wasnt too happy to see 8 Volumes for the moster books. This just reminds me of the old milking days of TSR. One Monser Manual would of been much cooler.

After reading thru the module i am tempted to check out the main rule sbooks but the 8 books i would have to buy for all the monsters REALLY stops me from doing this.

*I really liked the battle sheet at the end of the module. Very helpful for keeping track of whats happening.

*This is a great start up adventure to introduce your players to Hackmaster. The humour sread throughout the book is tounge in cheek and its a cool Dungeon Crawl that brought back memories of old school times.

The adventure is $11.99 and has 44 pages of material.
Its chock full of material here and has very little wasted space, which is very cool.

If its one thing i hate its product that claims to be ? pages but 1/4 or half is wasted on artwork or columns or just blank pages.

In Conclusion i would say that if your an old school 1E player that cant get into all the stats of 3E then Hackmaster just might be for you. If you like the powergaming and Stat heavy game of 3E then maybe this is not your cup of tea.

The only thing that would stop me picking Hackmaster up would be the lots and lots of Monster Books. If i want to pick up the game i would like to spend as little cash up front as possible. I think the only mistake Kenzer has made with this product line is intsead of having the three main core books for people to pick up and play straight away they (in a sort of funny/humor attempt to mock the old milking process TSR had) has shot themselves in the foot.

All in all a great module, thanks Kenzer for the module and bringing back that old 1E feel


Harlequin

 

[ColonelHardisson]

If you have the Monster Manual from 1e or 2e, you may not necessarily have to buy all the Hacklopedias...but I highly recommend them. I squawked about the 8 volumes at first, but they really are worth it. The GMG and PHB, though, are, in my opinion, masterpieces.

I will have to disagree, though, about HackMaster being less about powergaming or less rules-intensive than 3e. In some ways it's even more about those things than 3e.

 

[Tsyr]

You know, I have yet to disagree with CH regarding hackmaster

In some ways, Hackmaster is the munchkin's dream. There are amazing items (+12 swords, anyone?), fractional stats (I like this), critical hit tables out the wazoo, merits/flaws, and it's got the right attitude.

All of this is as it should be, per KodT.

But as the players in KodT learn, in Hackmaster, the HM is your enemy, not just the storyteller.

But HM is also a very serious game... there is a deeper history behind garweeze wurld than probably any game setting I know, for example, and it can be VERY political. A tiny little fragment of the world has been released thus far (like 1/32 of it, at best) and there is already so much history and adventure potential there that I could play there for years.

I think it might have been me CH was paraphrasing, I've said similar things on occasion... and it holds true... Hackmaster is a very real, very playable game, and it can be as serious a game as you want (I know two different people who are running deathly serious roleplay intensive games with hackmaster, because to them it is their "third edition", rather than D20). But it does have a sense of humor too... some of the items (Chainmail Bikini of Remote Eye Gouging, anyone?), spells (Sidewinder Fireball, anyone?), and monsters (Say, for example, the Babbler; Cantankerous) might need to be removed for a serious game, but on the other hand, a lot of the stranger stuff they added in makes for very good games. Grel, Pixie Faries, etc... they might seem quirky at first, but they are so elaborately detailed and woven in to the story of Garweeze Wurld that they stop being the least silly when you start reading about them. Some of the new monsters have even seen use in my 3E games. So has a version of the Critical Hit Tables, and the pages of random charts are nice for just about ANY fantasy game.

 

[Akhkharu]

I also won the Hack Master module last Tuesday. I received it last night though I have yet to read it. I brought it to work with me, so if I have time, I'll get a good start into it.
On first impressions, I'd have to say it looks rather, ummm, different.
Now, I just started playing RPG about a year ago, so I'm not to familiar with the 1e feel of things but I am familiar with all the hack and smash type of games (both of the games I play in are like that, unfortunately).
Once I have read it, I'll post my feelings on it. Though what that amounts to, we'll see.
Akh