Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Practiced Spellcaster Breaks D20
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1880580" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>There are few characters who wouldn't get <em>some</em> benefit from an extra few caster levels. The thing to consider, however, is the opportunity cost.</p><p></p><p>For instance, for both rogues, it competes with Stealthy and Nimble Fingers. In combat situations, it also competes with improved initiative, weapon finesse, weapon focus, two weapon fighting, improved buckler defense, dodge, mobility, spring attack, and elusive target. It also competes with the various social feats for the social-skill based rogue as well as things like Disguise Spell. (The ability to work a charm person into what appears to be ordinary conversation could be more important than the extra duration on a heroism or invisibility spell). And, it competes with the combat options too. Even social rogues get into fights every now and then.</p><p></p><p>Depending upon the class makeup of the rogue in question, the benefits might not be too significant either. If the majority of the character is in rogue levels with only 4-6 caster levels total, then the difference between a 40 square foot door (about 6x6 feet) and a 100 square foot door (10x10) may or may not be sufficient to be worth a feat for the rogue/wizard. The lower number is big enough for enlarged doors and some double doors anyway. The higher number still isn't big enough for castle gates. So, the benefit consists of being usable on doors somewhere between double sized house entryways and castle gates. Since sneaking generally isn't done through the front door anyway, it's a relatively minor benefit.</p><p></p><p>Similarly with a glibness type spell (Glibness is bard only so it doesn't properly belong here, but heroism offers skill bonusses that might be valuable), the difference between 50 minutes and 90 minutes (as a 3rd level spell, there's a minimum caster level) is significant. However, 50 minutes is often enough to get in and out and finish. 90 minutes is sometimes not enough. A lesser metamagic rod of extend spell can solve some of the duration problem making the un-feated spell last 100 minutes and the feated one 180 minutes. Still, it's a limited number of situations where 180 minutes is good but 100 minutes is not. And there are other ways around most of those situations.</p><p></p><p>Both of those characters have to ask themselves not "would an extra 2-4 caster levels be useful?" but rather "is the ability to affect 10x10 doors instead of 6x6 doors or 180 min extended heroism rather than 100 minute extended heroism going to be more helpful in avoiding trouble than Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse, or Elusive Target would be in helping me survive trouble?" The answer won't always be yes.</p><p></p><p>Practiced Spellcaster is a good feat for a character who wants to do something useful with one or two levels in a casting class. It's also good for a character who wants to use ordinary spells in combat but lost a lot of caster levels for some reason. Mystic Theurges and Arcane Tricksters will often fall into this category. For a character with middling spell skill (like a roge with 4 or 6 levels or wizard), it doesn't make as much sense. Their caster level is already high enough to do most of what they want to do and the feat won't push it high enough for them to function like a real caster. For spellcasting characters whose combat contribution is not straightforward spellcasting (like my eldritch knight character), it's not a particularly good feat either. Their caster level is already good enough to do most of what they want in combat and it isn't caster level that keeps them from effectively using attack spells anyway.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 1880580, member: 3146"] There are few characters who wouldn't get [i]some[/i] benefit from an extra few caster levels. The thing to consider, however, is the opportunity cost. For instance, for both rogues, it competes with Stealthy and Nimble Fingers. In combat situations, it also competes with improved initiative, weapon finesse, weapon focus, two weapon fighting, improved buckler defense, dodge, mobility, spring attack, and elusive target. It also competes with the various social feats for the social-skill based rogue as well as things like Disguise Spell. (The ability to work a charm person into what appears to be ordinary conversation could be more important than the extra duration on a heroism or invisibility spell). And, it competes with the combat options too. Even social rogues get into fights every now and then. Depending upon the class makeup of the rogue in question, the benefits might not be too significant either. If the majority of the character is in rogue levels with only 4-6 caster levels total, then the difference between a 40 square foot door (about 6x6 feet) and a 100 square foot door (10x10) may or may not be sufficient to be worth a feat for the rogue/wizard. The lower number is big enough for enlarged doors and some double doors anyway. The higher number still isn't big enough for castle gates. So, the benefit consists of being usable on doors somewhere between double sized house entryways and castle gates. Since sneaking generally isn't done through the front door anyway, it's a relatively minor benefit. Similarly with a glibness type spell (Glibness is bard only so it doesn't properly belong here, but heroism offers skill bonusses that might be valuable), the difference between 50 minutes and 90 minutes (as a 3rd level spell, there's a minimum caster level) is significant. However, 50 minutes is often enough to get in and out and finish. 90 minutes is sometimes not enough. A lesser metamagic rod of extend spell can solve some of the duration problem making the un-feated spell last 100 minutes and the feated one 180 minutes. Still, it's a limited number of situations where 180 minutes is good but 100 minutes is not. And there are other ways around most of those situations. Both of those characters have to ask themselves not "would an extra 2-4 caster levels be useful?" but rather "is the ability to affect 10x10 doors instead of 6x6 doors or 180 min extended heroism rather than 100 minute extended heroism going to be more helpful in avoiding trouble than Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse, or Elusive Target would be in helping me survive trouble?" The answer won't always be yes. Practiced Spellcaster is a good feat for a character who wants to do something useful with one or two levels in a casting class. It's also good for a character who wants to use ordinary spells in combat but lost a lot of caster levels for some reason. Mystic Theurges and Arcane Tricksters will often fall into this category. For a character with middling spell skill (like a roge with 4 or 6 levels or wizard), it doesn't make as much sense. Their caster level is already high enough to do most of what they want to do and the feat won't push it high enough for them to function like a real caster. For spellcasting characters whose combat contribution is not straightforward spellcasting (like my eldritch knight character), it's not a particularly good feat either. Their caster level is already good enough to do most of what they want in combat and it isn't caster level that keeps them from effectively using attack spells anyway. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Practiced Spellcaster Breaks D20
Top