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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4301901" data-attributes="member: 18">First off, all Chris' specific criticism seem to be pretty damn near the mark.However, what I question is whether ANY PHB including the 1E PHB, has EVER been a truly entry-level product. Virtually everyone I know who plays D&amp;D &quot;entered&quot; by one of two ways:1) They knew people who played D&amp;D already, who taught them the ropes.2) They bought a boxed set.I was slightly different.I heard about AD&amp;D from a new friend, it sound totally awesome, so my brother and I bought a PHB, the DMG, and FRA (haha didn't know you needed the MC).This did not give us a playable game. Reading the books did not teach us how to play, and did confuse us a great deal (at 9 and 11 respectively, I believe). Not until a week or two later, when amazingly fortuitously, a second cousin of mine who turned out to be a big D&amp;D player turned up did we discover how to play, when she explained everything and designed and ran an awesome adventure for us.So I think the PHB is reasonable for people who are playing because they know players already, who said &quot;Get a PHB&quot;, but I do think, just like in previous editions, it's a bit much for a GENUINELY new player, and it does completely fail to sell itself, that's for sure.Hopefully WotC has some really genius and CHEAP entry-level products on the way. Seems like an BD&amp;D-style boxed set with levels 1-10, 4 races, 4 classes (or maybe 6 of each) and a campaign or at least a handful of quick adventures for a GM to run would be a very good idea.One thing I don't see how to overcome, though, is that D&amp;D 4E is &quot;hardcore balanced&quot;, in the sense that if you don't use teamwork, aren't equipped right, and didn't choose smart abilities and don't use them intelligently, you're likely see TPKs very frequently. Then again, BD&amp;D saw constant TPKs, so maybe it's not a big deal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 4301901, member: 18"] First off, all Chris' specific criticism seem to be pretty damn near the mark. However, what I question is whether ANY PHB including the 1E PHB, has EVER been a truly entry-level product. Virtually everyone I know who plays D&D "entered" by one of two ways: 1) They knew people who played D&D already, who taught them the ropes. 2) They bought a boxed set. I was slightly different. I heard about AD&D from a new friend, it sound totally awesome, so my brother and I bought a PHB, the DMG, and FRA (haha didn't know you needed the MC). This did not give us a playable game. Reading the books did not teach us how to play, and did confuse us a great deal (at 9 and 11 respectively, I believe). Not until a week or two later, when amazingly fortuitously, a second cousin of mine who turned out to be a big D&D player turned up did we discover how to play, when she explained everything and designed and ran an awesome adventure for us. So I think the PHB is reasonable for people who are playing because they know players already, who said "Get a PHB", but I do think, just like in previous editions, it's a bit much for a GENUINELY new player, and it does completely fail to sell itself, that's for sure. Hopefully WotC has some really genius and CHEAP entry-level products on the way. Seems like an BD&D-style boxed set with levels 1-10, 4 races, 4 classes (or maybe 6 of each) and a campaign or at least a handful of quick adventures for a GM to run would be a very good idea. One thing I don't see how to overcome, though, is that D&D 4E is "hardcore balanced", in the sense that if you don't use teamwork, aren't equipped right, and didn't choose smart abilities and don't use them intelligently, you're likely see TPKs very frequently. Then again, BD&D saw constant TPKs, so maybe it's not a big deal. [/QUOTE]

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