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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4302358" data-attributes="member: 18">Whilst I think your idea of a "conversation" is a little out there, I don't think there's much point in that if I just tell you what I think, unless you keep doing it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />IanB - I have, and even as someone who is considered extremely knowledgeable about several complex MMORPGs (more complex, I would argue, numerically, than most TT RPGs), they were fairly put-off by it by themselves.When I *helped* them character creation went extremely smoothly and quickly (unlike 3E), but they did need a bit of help. Even my brother, who has played D&D with me since 1989 says he was rather overwhelmed by the 4E PHB at first and note that he was NOT overwhelmed by the 3E PHB.I think with even a little guidance from an experienced player or DM, this PHB is great, but it can be quite threatening otherwise. Just experience with it so far.</blockquote>