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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 4302445" data-attributes="member: 5868">I think Pramas has valid points, though as it's been pointed out, they are mostly more issues of organization and presentation than criticisms of the game mechanics themselves -- which, frankly, appears to be how he intended the post.  Comments:Newb class: I think the idea of a newb class insults new gamers.  Having introduced a new gamer to 3.5 who decided to join an ongoing campaign at 8th level by playing a druid, I think it's better to cater to the character a new player wants to play than to give them something they don't like but that you think is easier to grok.The Great Wall.  Amen.  My eyes glaze over if I try to flip through it.  My first few read throughs I just read the basic class descrptions, then when I got to the powers listings I flipped to the next class.  Admittedly, I do this with spell and magic item sections in 3E books too.  It wasn't until I actually decided to roll up a character that I went back to study the particular power selections.  I've now gone in detail through 3 or 4 classes ... but still haven't bothered to read cleric, paladin, or warlord powers at all.  They'll be there when I want them.Organization: Yeah, it could definitely use more examples ... not a criticism soley of the PHB, either.  The DMG needs more as well.  And a few pages need easy ways to locate them ... like the big advancement table.  The core books need to be thought of as textbooks, and need to be cross-indexed appropriately.Whoever suggested including a character creator was spot on.  I learned more about how the various mechanics interact by building an Excel-based optimizer (and looking at other folks' auto-calculating character sheets) than by reading the book.Just reinforces my opnion that a section or two (like magic items ...) should have been booted to the DMG to improve the PHB presentation, and add value to the DMG in the process.</blockquote>

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