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<blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 4303038" data-attributes="member: 1106">It's not an &quot;either/or&quot;.&nbsp; It's just a problem with no easy solution.&nbsp; Swinging to one extreme end of the pendulum as you've suggested there is not the answer, IMO, and nor is hanging about in the centre (where everyone loses).&nbsp; If there is a good one, I don't think I, Pramas, you or WOTC have thought of it yet.There's also the issue of 12 year olds not wanting to be talked down to, thank you very much.&nbsp; If you produce a &quot;Basic Boxed Set&quot; in the true sense of the word like 3E did (the OD&amp;D Red Box wasn't really that, it was just levels 1-3 for the full game), they'll see it for what it is - watered down - and ignore it for the Real Thing.I think that's part of what you're pointing out above.&nbsp; But on the other hand, going hardcore isn't going to work either.&nbsp; Those 12 year olds will need someone to introduce it to them.I think that D&amp;D's biggest quandary is that it expects the players to be part novelist, part level designer, part computer running rules software.&nbsp; Rare is the person who's good at all three, and rare is the ruleset which can compensate for the fact that it's players might be lousy novelists, lousy level designers and lousy computers...and still remain fun, and worthy of your time and effort.&nbsp; And, as Pramas points out, readable...and as I'd point out, inspiring.That's one heck of a lot of stuff for one game to live up to.&nbsp; But that's P&amp;P RPGs, and D&amp;D is the industry 900 lb gorilla of these, and the default.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rounser, post: 4303038, member: 1106"] It's not an "either/or". It's just a problem with no easy solution. Swinging to one extreme end of the pendulum as you've suggested there is not the answer, IMO, and nor is hanging about in the centre (where everyone loses). If there is a good one, I don't think I, Pramas, you or WOTC have thought of it yet. There's also the issue of 12 year olds not wanting to be talked down to, thank you very much. If you produce a "Basic Boxed Set" in the true sense of the word like 3E did (the OD&D Red Box wasn't really that, it was just levels 1-3 for the full game), they'll see it for what it is - watered down - and ignore it for the Real Thing. I think that's part of what you're pointing out above. But on the other hand, going hardcore isn't going to work either. Those 12 year olds will need someone to introduce it to them. I think that D&D's biggest quandary is that it expects the players to be part novelist, part level designer, part computer running rules software. Rare is the person who's good at all three, and rare is the ruleset which can compensate for the fact that it's players might be lousy novelists, lousy level designers and lousy computers...and still remain fun, and worthy of your time and effort. And, as Pramas points out, readable...and as I'd point out, inspiring. That's one heck of a lot of stuff for one game to live up to. But that's P&P RPGs, and D&D is the industry 900 lb gorilla of these, and the default. [/QUOTE]

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