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Message: <blockquote data-quote="vagabundo" data-source="post: 4315805" data-attributes="member: 55864">The answer here is all in the abstraction level used. All the actions listed happen in the abstract combat of DND during the round to round fighting that is atk roll-hp damage. 3e was very spiky* when it came to abstraction, some things could be very detailed and others not, it lead to issues when some actions were combined. 4e, to my mind, has a more even level of abstraction that is slightly higher than the 3e avg level. It also makes more use of standard terms and keywords. However Prone in most cases will mean your flat on your back for a second or two, slightly winded or depending on the creature something different (up to the DM to explain it for non-humanoids). Prone is an abstraction to indicate a few different conditons; your able to crawl if you want as default,you give combat advantage, ...4e also hands some narrative control to the player. It says you have a power called Trip, your trained in Tripping, it is difficult to Trip in combat and the opportunity to pull it off so your target is Prone, on average, only happens once in a encounter. It is more abstract than 3e. Anyone can and does attempt to trip in the ebb and flow of atk rolls in 4e, but that isnt Trip and they don't knock anyone Prone with it. So, there are abstraction and narrative control changes from 3e to 4e that some people will hate, truly hate. I love it personally. But if your going to compare the two you need to change your mindset when thinking about what is happening with 4e, atk rolls and power usage.*all dnd (including 4e) is spiky with the abstraction level, but thats dnd for ya.PS: the above is my take on 4e combat and my take on 3e, not trying to start a thread derailment here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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