PrC as a template? or am i just nuts?

[Negative Zero]

not sure if this belongs here or in house rules but here's a funky idea i had today.

i was talking DnD with my GM, i we often do, and we got to talking PrCs. our group has taken to paying a certain amount of homage to the patron saint of luck in our campaign (no gods but saint's might fill the same basic role) on a fairly regular basis. in fact, when the group is Named (yes it's capilaised on purpose) we're even thinking of incorporating her name into the groups.

so, while discussing things, we brushed on the idea of a Chosen of [insert saint name here] type of class. unfortunately, this has several drawbacks. it could likely ruin the character concept that a player has, by taking it in a completely unwanted direction. or at best, it could derail it so long that the original idea becomes pointless. also, how do you make one class fit a fighter and a wiz and a rogue etc?

and then out of the blue, after we'd finished the conversation, the idea came to me:

wouldn't this work very nicely as a template? you could pay for it at a certain level with the xp it would take to get to the next level in place of going up said level. in exchange for that level, your character acquires the template and associated abilities/powers and very likely, an associated ECL to keep things balanced.

in this way, you'd have a commonality shared by the Named Group; the similarities of a PrC without actually being forced into one and you don't interfere with the normal PrC/level advancement too much.

then, i thought:
you could in fact create a sort of "xp savings account" for each character where, each time they are awarded xp, the player can choose to "deposit" a certain amt of xp (perhaps with limits as the GM sees fit) and when the character reaches a certain preset total in their xp account, they can use it to "buy" their template.

what do you think?

~NegZ

 

[Umbran]

what do you think?

Hm.

If you want to pay XP for it, there's a simple solution - make it a Presitge Class with few (perhaps only one) level.

 

[Emiricol]

I really like the idea. Very creative.

 

[Negative Zero]

Re: Re: PrC as a template? or am i just nuts?

If you want to pay XP for it, there's a simple solution - make it a Presitge Class with few (perhaps only one) level.

levels have specific meaning to them. they require you to have a specific bab and save progression. not to mention it counts against that level 20 cap (yes some people still play with that )

this way it's not handed out for free, and the player decides how fast he acquires it and even if he does at all.

~NegZ

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Other than the 'xp account' thingy, I think its a good idea. Just make an ECL 1 template and when your character levels up instead of taking a level in a class he can take the template.

I did a similar thing for a PC who wanted to become a half dragon. Rather than use the Dragon Disciple prc (which I dislike) he simply gave up 3 character levels and took the half dragon template.

 

[Conner@Home]

...
then, i thought:
you could in fact create a sort of "xp savings account" for each character where, each time they are awarded xp, the player can choose to "deposit" a certain amt of xp (perhaps with limits as the GM sees fit) and when the character reaches a certain preset total in their xp account, they can use it to "buy" their template.

what do you think?

~NegZ

Have you seen the Prestige Race concept as presented in Oathbound and then expanded in Dragon Magazine? Prestige race enhancements are basically templates that cost XP instead of an even single level. You could easily model Class enhancements ( alternative to a PrC ) this way by buying features with XP. You could bundle the class features into as many packages ( levels ) as you want that characters may buy ( in a specific order ).

Balancing the XP cost by the features you receive is the tricky part.

And then you have the CR issue to deal with too. The DM will need to keep your class enahancements in mind when figuring encounters...

Barandur (sp) and Ashy would be glad to give you input that will help you balance your concept after you develop it I bet.

 

[darkbard]

there's also precedent for what you're talking about in the shadow-walker template from unapproachable east. this book is chock full of setting-specific models for prestige classes, templates, etc. and is well worth taking a look at for such ideas. specifically, this template is assumed after a religious ritual and adds +1 ECL in return for a number of abilities related to shadow effects. these abilities scale with level [and new ones are added].

 

[Aaron2]

Re: Re: Re: PrC as a template? or am i just nuts?

Originally posted by Negative Zero

levels have specific meaning to them. they require you to have a specific bab and save progression. not to mention it counts against that level 20 cap (yes some people still play with that )

Doesn't ECL still count against the 20th level cap. I fail to see the difference in one level of a class and a +1 ECL template.

this way it's not handed out for free, and the player decides how fast he acquires it and even if he does at all.

The problem is, if you set the XP for the template at a fixed amount, the characters will, essentially, be able to buy a level for less than the XP they would otherwise be required. If, for example, the template cost 5,000 xp, then a 10th level character who needs 10,000 xp to advance will be able to buy a level for 1/2 price. I don't like it.


Aaron

 

[Negative Zero]

Re: Re: Re: Re: PrC as a template? or am i just nuts?

Doesn't ECL still count against the 20th level cap. I fail to see the difference in one level of a class and a +1 ECL template.

i could be wrong (don't own a DMG) but i don't think so. an ECL 5 race still starts out at level 1 in any specific class and can advance to level 20 in that class (effectively becoming a level 25 character).

an ECL +x template simply allows the GM to keep track of the power level of the group while providing them with additional powers. an actual level might change the characters ability to have access to higher level spells or perhaps iterative attacks, for example.

now, it might be that this is preferable to simply adding a template, i don't know. i've never run a game before, so i'm seeking the input of those more knowledgeable than i.

The problem is, if you set the XP for the template at a fixed amount, the characters will, essentially, be able to buy a level for less than the XP they would otherwise be required. If, for example, the template cost 5,000 xp, then a 10th level character who needs 10,000 xp to advance will be able to buy a level for 1/2 price. I don't like it.[/B]

well that'd depend on what the power were wouldn't it? meaning, if hte powers were comprable to those of a 5th level character, but still something usefull at any level, then it wouldn't matter at what level the player took it. for example, always knowing the distace to and direction of the other members of the group.

perhaps a better system would be to offer the players the option for them all to take the template at a certain level, for a certain cost. that would automatically be paid when possible without losing a level. it could be a decision that the group must make together.

you don't like it. that's fine. everyone's entitled to their opinon. thank you for sharing yours. if there are any other flaws you find, i'd love to hear them.

Conner@Home
yes, i did see that article in Dragon mag. i liked the idea a lot. hadn't thought of that. i'll have to go take a look.

darkbard
don't have access to the source you quoted, but i'll look out for it.

Emiricol
thanks much! i thought so too!

Aust Diamondew
i actually really liked the "xp account" idea. in fact i was thinking that it could be used in numerous other ways. for example (and be warned that i'm just using random numbers that come to me):

say the player has got 500 xp in his account, and he's just had a nasty spell cast at him, he knows that if he failsm he's pretty much FUBARed. at a rate of say 100xp / +2 to a save, he could spend xp from his account and try to save his hide. (of course, the GM would be free to tweak the numbers anyway he sees fit.)

~NegZ

 

[Umbran]

The question on doing in terms of a template you buy or a level you gain is simply this - are all your characters likely to take the thing?

If *everyone* is going to take it, then in a sense it hardly matters how you deal with it. Balance is maintained among your party members.

The problem comes in if only some of the characters take it. If you deal with it as a template with a flat cost, then the question arises - are the people who are buying the template getting more power for less cost than the people who choose to take an ordinary level.

ECL is not necessarily the best measure, as it isn't really designed to be slapped on in the middle of the career. You start with an ECL, and then add on top of it. Which may or may not matter, depending on the case.

If it's formulated as a PrC, you avoid those problems. You simply make sure that each level is comparable to a level in a class - on par with a +1 BAB, addition to saves, maybe a spell or two. This means that the abilities gained for a single level won't be particuarly dramatic, but you have less to worry about when considering balance among your PCs.