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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 873985" data-attributes="member: 537">A feat spent on a prerequisite _is_ an ongoing cost, if it's not something you would have taken otherwise. Opportunity cost, boys 'n girls.Indeed, another of the things I'm trying to do with this PrC is to specifically move it AWAY from being dependent on one particular weapon.So? A rogue could get boots of elvenkind and do exactly the same thing. The extra 2000 gp is chump change at high levels.Jump: irrelevant at high levels.Climb: irrelevant at high levels.Tumble: unusable in heavy armour.My experience is that people have all sorts of items occupying all sorts of slots. One of my current characters has none of the above occuping the boots slot: he has boots of air stride, which combine doubled movement speed with air stride 2 hrs/day. The WotC modules themselves have NPCs wearing rings of resistance, amulets of protection, or whatnot. I see absolutely no problem with such chopping and changing as a general rule, although specifics may vary. Hence even if somebody has boots of S&S, they may put flight into the same item, or have a separate item providing flight, and so on. And at high levels, flight is one of the abilities that you absolutely DO need.Yes, I just said that, along with why it isn't necessarily broken. Your point is what, exactly?Because it fits the flavour of the class. And besides, if extra bonuses are of limited use beyond a point, then there's hardly a problem in terms of balance, is there?See OA for rules on extreme Tumbling. In particular, you can reduce falling damage by 10' for every +15 to the Tumble DC.With monk movement, boots of S&S, or an equivalent item, you can jump all over the place.Ahem. Leap of the Clouds.And as said above, anyone with boots and cloak of elvenkind can do exactly the same thing, for the huge, huge expense of 4000 gp. Recall that a 20th level PC has 760,000 gp worth of stuff, and even a 10th level one has 49,000 gp. Despite this, I've never seen or heard anyone say that spending skill ranks in Spot and Listen is worthless. They may be worthless for characters who aren't in the business of being scouts, but for rangers and rogues, they're still must-have skills. Rarely, if ever, do you have equal-level PC-class characters going head-to-head in an arena situation, and so your numbers are irrelevant: most, if not all of the time, a scout will be detecting monsters that _don't_ have huge competence bonuses to stealth, and a spy will be hiding from monsters that don't have huge competence bonuses to detect.If you want to design such a PrC, go right ahead. In the meantime, I'd be grateful if you disabuse yourself of the notion that my design philosophy is the same as your philosophy.</blockquote>

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