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[PrC] Disciple of Logic
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<blockquote data-quote="MarauderX" data-source="post: 1305227" data-attributes="member: 9990"><p>Having re-read through the PrC, I am starting to imagine the balance. At first I was estimating the Leap of Logic to be too powerful, as it can be used to add to nearly any d20 check, but the limited number of uses a day and the fatigue limit it well. I agree with Altamount Ravenard that it will probably be used nearly every game day, making it a very worthwhile PrC. </p><p></p><p>Essentially it breaks down to a monk/caster multiclass with added abilities on top of the monk abilities. Say an arcane caster gets the skill reqs for the PrC and decides to take it. By my estimation, a 4th level arcane caster would be able to get the skill points, feats, and be able to cast both spells necessary to take the PrC at 5th level. At the first level of the PrC, the caster gains a new level of monk with Unarmed strike, Flurry, Bonus monk feat PLUS Assess inclinations. At the 2nd level of the PrC she would get bumped up a spell level and now has access to 3rd level spells - Zap! Ka-Pow! - along with Analyze Opponent. In her first battle at 2nd level of this Prc (6th level overall), she can get her Int bonus (+4 max) to attack, AC and bluff against up to 4 opponents. Not even rangers have this vs. their favored enemies, as they get no attack or AC bonuses, just bonuses to damage. And when you are half monk, the thing you really need is a bonus to hit, not to damage, as you would have 2 attacks at -2. Add on a +4 Int bonus, and now that fireball-slinging wizard enters the melee fray, buffed with Mage Armor, to bump her AC up to at least 18 vs. 4 opponents, <u>without </u> any Wis bonuses to AC. </p><p></p><p>Along with the first and second level spells (like Enlarge Person), this PC is already more valuable than any of the other Arcane casters of 6th level, and is just half a step behind a 6th level monk with the AC and attack bonuses. Add on the next level of the PrC and she can probably run/swim just as far as a barbarian without becoming fatigued, making it possible to outlast (therefore outdistance) anyone chasing her. Not only that, but any PC/NPC trying to escape only becomes easier prey for her, as she can run to catch up, then cast something, then run again... yikes. Add in Evasion with the monk's better saves and the same area damage spells she can dish out become less effective to her. </p><p></p><p>Leap of Logic comes next, which is pretty cool. I like this, but when added whenever you want it becomes the save-your-@$$ ability. Add the bonus to AC whenever you want once per day comes in handy when you are down to 1 HP and still being rushed by nasties. With the drained abilities, use the Endurance mentioned above and come back tomorrow after a good nap to finish them off. At this level she would get another ability point, possibly bringing her Int up to 20 for a +5. 18+5 = 23 AC, without any magic items or Wis bonus. Start playing tag with the other PCs, cause even a touch attack is exceedingly difficult. </p><p></p><p>I think the Slippery Mind chance for a re-roll was made before Hold Person was 'modified', so it really loses it's luster. The major things here is the monk ability Still Mind and +10' per round. I think this level of the PrC is aimed at coupling Slippery Mind and Still Mind together for max benefit. The PC becomes even faster, and has probably sunk some skill points into Tumble so she can go zipping around a battlefield to get to those 2 or 4 opponents she has Analyzed. </p><p></p><p>Next is another Leap of Logic per day, and can use each for 2 or more encounters in the day. So if she is followed after fleaing a fight and ambushed later, she can apply it again to retreat. The other important thing here is the addition of 4th level spells to the mix. A caster of equal level would have had them already, but it is necessary to note the possibilities of what it does in conjunction with this PC. </p><p></p><p>Disciplined Mind adds to the anti-mind spells and the PC gains another level of monk with the key abilities of Ki Strike and d8 damage per flurry attack. Not too much of an enhancement overall. </p><p></p><p>Leap of Logic can be used at the next level without fatigue, but still only once per encounter. With another level of arcane caster, it doesn't add too much to the overall abilities. </p><p></p><p>Gaining the DieHard feat lets her automatically succeed on any stabilization checks, and can use it to get out of harms way. Along with Purity of Body it makes this level pretty even. </p><p></p><p>Trance is a nice top level ability, and can be used at the same time as a leap of logic, producing incredible skill results. Would she use this skill check to instantly out-bluff everyone in a room? Or will she out-tumble all those around her? She also gains another spell caster level, making 5th level spells accessible. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Overall, I think the PrC is a little powerful up front, and when combining these abilities with the later ones I think this PrC outshines most others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MarauderX, post: 1305227, member: 9990"] Having re-read through the PrC, I am starting to imagine the balance. At first I was estimating the Leap of Logic to be too powerful, as it can be used to add to nearly any d20 check, but the limited number of uses a day and the fatigue limit it well. I agree with Altamount Ravenard that it will probably be used nearly every game day, making it a very worthwhile PrC. Essentially it breaks down to a monk/caster multiclass with added abilities on top of the monk abilities. Say an arcane caster gets the skill reqs for the PrC and decides to take it. By my estimation, a 4th level arcane caster would be able to get the skill points, feats, and be able to cast both spells necessary to take the PrC at 5th level. At the first level of the PrC, the caster gains a new level of monk with Unarmed strike, Flurry, Bonus monk feat PLUS Assess inclinations. At the 2nd level of the PrC she would get bumped up a spell level and now has access to 3rd level spells - Zap! Ka-Pow! - along with Analyze Opponent. In her first battle at 2nd level of this Prc (6th level overall), she can get her Int bonus (+4 max) to attack, AC and bluff against up to 4 opponents. Not even rangers have this vs. their favored enemies, as they get no attack or AC bonuses, just bonuses to damage. And when you are half monk, the thing you really need is a bonus to hit, not to damage, as you would have 2 attacks at -2. Add on a +4 Int bonus, and now that fireball-slinging wizard enters the melee fray, buffed with Mage Armor, to bump her AC up to at least 18 vs. 4 opponents, [U]without [/U] any Wis bonuses to AC. Along with the first and second level spells (like Enlarge Person), this PC is already more valuable than any of the other Arcane casters of 6th level, and is just half a step behind a 6th level monk with the AC and attack bonuses. Add on the next level of the PrC and she can probably run/swim just as far as a barbarian without becoming fatigued, making it possible to outlast (therefore outdistance) anyone chasing her. Not only that, but any PC/NPC trying to escape only becomes easier prey for her, as she can run to catch up, then cast something, then run again... yikes. Add in Evasion with the monk's better saves and the same area damage spells she can dish out become less effective to her. Leap of Logic comes next, which is pretty cool. I like this, but when added whenever you want it becomes the save-your-@$$ ability. Add the bonus to AC whenever you want once per day comes in handy when you are down to 1 HP and still being rushed by nasties. With the drained abilities, use the Endurance mentioned above and come back tomorrow after a good nap to finish them off. At this level she would get another ability point, possibly bringing her Int up to 20 for a +5. 18+5 = 23 AC, without any magic items or Wis bonus. Start playing tag with the other PCs, cause even a touch attack is exceedingly difficult. I think the Slippery Mind chance for a re-roll was made before Hold Person was 'modified', so it really loses it's luster. The major things here is the monk ability Still Mind and +10' per round. I think this level of the PrC is aimed at coupling Slippery Mind and Still Mind together for max benefit. The PC becomes even faster, and has probably sunk some skill points into Tumble so she can go zipping around a battlefield to get to those 2 or 4 opponents she has Analyzed. Next is another Leap of Logic per day, and can use each for 2 or more encounters in the day. So if she is followed after fleaing a fight and ambushed later, she can apply it again to retreat. The other important thing here is the addition of 4th level spells to the mix. A caster of equal level would have had them already, but it is necessary to note the possibilities of what it does in conjunction with this PC. Disciplined Mind adds to the anti-mind spells and the PC gains another level of monk with the key abilities of Ki Strike and d8 damage per flurry attack. Not too much of an enhancement overall. Leap of Logic can be used at the next level without fatigue, but still only once per encounter. With another level of arcane caster, it doesn't add too much to the overall abilities. Gaining the DieHard feat lets her automatically succeed on any stabilization checks, and can use it to get out of harms way. Along with Purity of Body it makes this level pretty even. Trance is a nice top level ability, and can be used at the same time as a leap of logic, producing incredible skill results. Would she use this skill check to instantly out-bluff everyone in a room? Or will she out-tumble all those around her? She also gains another spell caster level, making 5th level spells accessible. Overall, I think the PrC is a little powerful up front, and when combining these abilities with the later ones I think this PrC outshines most others. [/QUOTE]
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