PRC - Elf Diplomat

[Sigurd]

I'm toying with a version of the Dwarf Ollam appropriate for elves. My idea would be to have a relatively low level diplomat, versed in Elf treaties and history. Sort of the foreign service for elves.


Elven Diplomat

Elves mostly keep to their own affairs -- the joys of their own lands outshine their duties to any others. Yet if a bond is so important that even in peace time there must be a constant elf presence it is likely the post will receive an Elf Diplomat. Diplomats serve as envoys to gather information witness agreements and coordinate goals for Elf councils and Nobles.
This class is unpopular with many elves who see it as exile and tedious in the extreme.

Requirements
Race: Elf or Half Elf in good standing with Elf Court.
Alignment: Any at the pleasure of the court – Often LN
Skill Reqs: Knowledge History or Aristocracy 10 Ranks
Knowledge (any other 10 ranks)
Diplomacy 5 ranks

HD: d6
Skill points: 6 + int bonus
Attack : Wizard
Good Save: Will

Armor: Light
Weapon: Longsword & Bow
Skills: Con: Concentrate. Int: Craft, , Decipher Script, Know(any), Search, Spellcraft. Wis: Heal, Listen, Sense Motive. Cha: Diplomacy, Gather Info., Perform. Speak Language.

5 level Progression entry at 7th level.

Level

1 Elf Lore, Favour of the Court, Court Intrigue
2 Skill Focus Diplomacy, +1 level of spell casting class
3 Bonus Feat from list, +1 level of spell casting class
4 +1 level of spell casting class
5 Bonus Feat, Possible Pension or title, +1 level of spell casting class


Elf Lore - similar to bardic lore but focused on the affairs of elves + 1 each level of diplomat. Stacks with Bardic Lore.

Favour of the court: Diplomats receive their intelligence or char bonus (whichever is higher) times 1000 gld to spend on their upkeep and lodgings each year. Where there is a safe house provided they are expected to keep it in good repair and maintain its secrets, stores and hospitality.

Court Intrigue - Yours are not the only reports that the elf court reads

Adjutant: Diplomats stationed in a safe house receive the service of an adjutant or major domo. This servant also reports to the court on diplomat activities successes and failures.​

Bonus feat from list - Duel, Riding, Communication, Position & Political feats

Skill focus: Diplomacy +3 levels Diplomacy.

***

Any comment appreciated

 

[Psimancer]

I like.

Just a couple of thoughts:

Racially, Half-elves would also make good ambassadors. Elven culture would frequently see that as ‘go-betweens’.

I think the 10 ranks in the Knowledge skills is a little harsh (maybe 5?). Instead of the second knowledge being (any), I would specify it; Local and Nobility are both appropriate options.

Diplomats are often required to both see through and present subterfuge; Bluff and Sense Motive are potentially good additions to the requirements list.

Given the foreign environment, and cuisine, I would suggest adding Fort as a favoured save.

I would drop the skill points back down to 6.

 

[Felnar]

generally half-elves also have access to elf only PrCs

i'd think a diplomat specialist should require more than 5 ranks of diplomacy

the knowledge(history) 10 requirment conflicts with your claim of 5th level entry

knowledge(nobility and royality) seems a better fit than history

also i'm not sure how spell levels fit into the concept
and what about the PrC makes it Elf related specifically

i think it needs to be fleshed out more

edit: Psimancer posted while i was typing *slowness*

 

[Psimancer]

…generally half-elves also have access to elf only PrCs…

Yeah, I think you are right, although Arcane Archer does specifically state it.

…i'd think a diplomat specialist should require more than 5 ranks of diplomacy…

Hmm… not sure I agree here. 5 ranks are pretty special. If you go above 5, I think it should only be by 1 or 2 ranks…

… also i'm not sure how spell levels fit into the concept…

Likewise, although I can see this PrC applicable to Rogues, Bards, Sorcerers and Wizards, so I can kinda picture it. If you really want to keep this open to casters, maybe ‘spell-caster level increase or bonus feat’. That way you are not limiting the concept one way or another.

And I would really like to see a ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ class ability.

 

[Felnar]

Hmm… not sure I agree here. 5 ranks are pretty special. If you go above 5, I think it should only be by 1 or 2 ranks…

Likewise, although I can see this PrC applicable to Rogues, Bards, Sorcerers and Wizards, so I can kinda picture it. If you really want to keep this open to casters, maybe ‘spell-caster level increase or bonus feat’. That way you are not limiting the concept one way or another.

And I would really like to see a ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ class ability.

you can have 5 ranks in a skill at level 2, not that special really

the more i think about it, the less this is a class, and the more it is a person who got a job
a dwarf that spends skill points in craft(blacksmith) doesnt need its own special class

Diplomatic Immunity, haha

 

[Psimancer]

you can have 5 ranks in a skill at level 2, not that special really

the more i think about it, the less this is a class, and the more it is a person who got a job
a dwarf that spends skill points in craft(blacksmith) doesnt need its own special class

Diplomatic Immunity, haha

5 Ranks at level 2 indicates some pretty serious dedication to an ability. For a Wizard or Sorcerer thats half their skill points (not including Int bonus). Even for a Rogue or Bard its dedication, given their cornucopia of skill choices. Maybe Skill Focus (Diplomacy) might be appropriate here?

When you think about it most PrCs (IMHO) are superfluous. You are right, a Dwarven Blacksmith doesn’t need a PrC, but a Dawrven MasterBlacksmith might be something kinda kewl.

For the life of me, I can not hear the words ‘Diplomatic Immunity’ in anything other than a South African accent (ala Lethal Weapon 2).

 

[Sigurd]

Race

I agree with the elf & half elf comment.

Profession vs Class

I understand this comment but in this case it is a role needed by the Elf nobility\ruling structure that has enough cohesion that I can see it as a 5 level prestige class. In this role you wouldn't be pushing paper or doing the grunt work - you'd be the largely autonomous representative of a possibly dissinterested Elven court. From an elf point of view, humans have this annoying habit of needing an answer, sometimes even within the same year its asked. This agent of the court would smooth relations & protect the elf point of view.

Spellcasters

Wizard is the preferred class for elves, magic represents a great deal of their power. Diplomats would be a representative of the race so it has a special place for the preferred class. Besides I think magic would be a primary conduit for communication and intrigue at the courts.

2 x Knowledge 10

This is the primary barrier to entry into the prestige class. Normally this would make the earliest level 7. I said 5 because I believe where there is a will there is a way so I wouldn't be surprised if someone could find feat etc... to shave a few levels off this barrier to entry. It is also the same mechanic as the WOTC Ollam class.

I'm being conservative as a game balance thing right now. I'm not averse to lowering the barrier - especially if I lower the skill points but I want to mull that over.

Diplomatic Immunity

Interesting. The mechanics of this need some thinking. Most of the 'immunity' would have to come from the hosting culture. The diplomat would always follow Elf laws. Perhaps he might need the freedom to follow Elf Law within his safe house. Considering the effects of magic this might be a dangerous thing for a city.

Sigurd

 

[Li Shenron]

I would change two things in the version I currently see:

1) I'd remove Skill Focus Diplomacy and instead give a PrCl feature that grants a competence bonus to Diplomacy equal to the PrCl level. It's a net +2 more powerful, but that's not the point. I'd prefer this way because a) it gives more sense of development to the PrCl, b) giving specific bonus feats at high level is not a good idea [the character may well have the feat already, or not take it earlier exactly because it's free later]

2) The Knowledge requirements are indeed a bit harsh. Knowledge could be a help to qualify rather than a strict necessity, although it's perfectly fine even this way (the Court decides who qualifies anyway, and they may appreciate knowledge more than skill for some reason). Anyway, the point is just not to overload the skill requisites as a whole: here it's 25 skill points, and few classes have all the 3 skills.
Just keep ONE skill at 10 ranks to determine the entry level (any one you prefer), and keep ALL the others low, like 5. Also keep in mind that for a class without that main skill, the entry level will be 18!! *

(BTW, the entry level is 8, because you need to already have 10 ranks before)

*
! more extreme measure is to require skill ranks 5 for all, and then explicitly require CHARACTER LEVEL 8. I understand that this is an unpopular practice (but it's so only because the authors themselves are used not to do it, not because it's written in the bible...), but it actually would help make your PrCl available for example to elven fighters, sorcerers or rangers.

 

[Nyaricus]

Hey Sigurd! Nice class you have here, i think i might pilifer (ps?) for my own campaign setting - it won't be exactly the same in theme, but i think i will be able to get it going smoothly enough - with a wee nit of editing, of course

Now, as for your specific PrC here . . .

Spellcasters

Wizard is the preferred class for elves, magic represents a great deal of their power. Diplomats would be a representative of the race so it has a special place for the preferred class. Besides I think magic would be a primary conduit for communication and intrigue at the courts.

Actually, i'd say magic would be banned - too many charm persons, and divination spells. Diplotmats would be those who make their living by their wit and tongue - not by their arcane lore. I think that adding to spellcasting levels would, in all honesty, be inappropriate.

It also discourages rogues (one fo the best classes IMO that a elf can go into) but getting useless abilities. If you still insist on spellcasting for this class, have it as a prereq - but don't penalize those that make characters against their "racial steriotypes" (damn you WotC, DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUU!!!) jj

2 x Knowledge 10

This is the primary barrier to entry into the prestige class. Normally this would make the earliest level 7. I said 5 because I believe where there is a will there is a way so I wouldn't be surprised if someone could find feat etc... to shave a few levels off this barrier to entry. It is also the same mechanic as the WOTC Ollam class.
I'm being conservative as a game balance thing right now. I'm not averse to lowering the barrier - especially if I lower the skill points but I want to mull that over.

ther are no feats in D&D that allow you to increase your ranks in a skill (the Iron Heroes theif class has a special ability though, but that definitively ain't standard D&D). Bonuses, yes, but not ranks. Also, it may be the same mechanic as the ollam class, but this is for elves not for bearded gnomes ( ) so i don't think (by that remark) that you are getting the theme right here. Diplomacy, sense motive, and bluff would be much more appropriate than two x 10 ranks in knowledge skills. In politics, its not how much you know, it's how much your opponents thnk you know.

Personally, i think your prereqs for this are out of whack. They don't make any sense, really. I think a few feats might be appropriate, in the line of Negotiator (+2/+2 Diplomacy and Sense Motive) and/or Skill Focus (Diplomacy). Li Shenron had the awesome idea of giving the Elven Dilomat a competence bonus to Diplomacy based on the Prc's level. If you decide to drop spell casting, maybe cinch this up by allowing a competence bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff and Sense Motive, based on Elven Diplomat level. I thnk that's all i'd do for now. Hope that helps you, anyways.

Cheers!

 

[Sigurd]

Nyaricus - Thank you and everybody for your comments. BTW - I want to use your berserker classe(s) so I'd be honoured if you used the Diplomat.


I appreciate your comments - these are my reactions.

Actually, i'd say magic would be banned - too many charm persons, and divination spells. Diplotmats would be those who make their living by their wit and tongue - not by their arcane lore. I think that adding to spellcasting levels would, in all honesty, be inappropriate.

It also discourages rogues (one fo the best classes IMO that a elf can go into) but getting useless abilities. If you still insist on spellcasting for this class, have it as a prereq - but don't penalize those that make characters against their "racial steriotypes" (damn you WotC, DAMN YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUU!!!) jj

3 comments:

1 - If magic was banned I'd agree but in the games I play its not. In a world of magic I think the court would send a wizard precisely because they want him\her to be ready for glamers etc.... Not having a magic potential is something like taking a knife to a gunfight. Magic is also a source of much confusion -- an educated view would be a more useful view. Divination & detection spells would be far more subtle than other methods. If I were the court I'd give preference to an abjurer of diviner.

2 - I don't intend to bar rogues they just don't get all the benefits If it was a prereq than I would bar rogues. Maybe this is not clear.

3 - Racial steriotypes exist. I imagine a lot of elf politicians have garnerred a degree of latitude because they are probably wizards. Between their possible age and mysterious background I hope humans think twice about insulting an Elf leader. Elves are often small in population and keeping up appearances is a way of keeping the respect of allies. Elves in a foreign land would be silly to give up a right to send a spellcaster. (see knife comment above )

I think a rogue could take this class but be stationned in an unofficial capacity. Let the spellcaster be watched don't watch the gardener he's only a 'servant' . The effect for the character would be almost identical - feats etc.... but he would be covert.

Non spellcasters might get a rank of disguise, forgery and one Rogue skill each level instead.

Li Shenron had the awesome idea of giving the Elven Dilomat a competence bonus to Diplomacy based on the Prc's level.

I like this idea as well. I'm just trying to watch the bonuses so that the class is not over powered.

In the case of the elf diplomat the history point of view is an attempt to telescope the world view of the long lived elves into something that serves human and shorter lived allies. The diplomat is, in part, a memory repository to help allies understand why the elves hold thier opinions. Those opinions, in the mind of one leader, might stretch back a thousand years!

A successful diplomat will have all sorts of skills but I'm trying to center on the elf's chief utility to a working relationship. Think council of Elrond from LOTR. Elrond speaks from historical authority over very weird but important events. That might be the chief role of this character in a foreign court.

The diplomat is not necessarily a hero. He would be the normal point man for normal situations. Presumably he'd keep\find\request heroes for impossible or potentially calamitous situations. What the elf court wants is someone who can adroitly recognise those situations and give meaingful council on why they are important and how they can be dealt with. Many NPC diplomats might never graduate from the 5 levels. PC's will have illustrious short careers as diplomats because of the 5 level character of the class.

Game Logic

From a game logic sense I'm trying to fit this class into what I see as a hole. Relatively low level magic class of utility and interest without great magic uber mojo. I don't want to care if they dabble in necromancy -- do your thing but plug into the affairs of the game world so that you have something to work from in upper levels. I don't want the level to be too low because I dont want the player to breeze through the class in two dungeons. I also don't think the court would be restricted to low level chars. In a real game world this class might be taken at 18th level (not likely by PC's but....) It is a royal appointment after all - its just not an hereditary title. I can see an elf leader take this out of pride, duty or because a sojourn in the sticks babysitting a bunch of neuvou powerful nobles would be a good for the reputation and allow things to cool down around him.


Sigurd

Does that make it clearer???

I'm a little worried about power creep.