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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 3405425" data-attributes="member: 18363">Um, at level 19-20 I would not consider +24 on first attack or only 40 damage (per attack) to be all that much - even without buffs. +24, pre buffs, is more or less expected, if not a bit low for that level for a fighter or barbarian (or ranger, actually). Only 40 damage (pre-buffs)? A 19-20th level Rogue could do better, albeit with Sneak attack. Without sneak attack, I think it would just be enough to edge out the rogue - which is really almost pitiful in comparison to what a pre-epic fighter or barbarian can accomplish. EK suffers from MAD. That is why, I presume, it had such a low Str for its level. A fighter or barbarian would have had an 18-22 in Str, pre-buffs. With +19 or +20 to attack from bab, they more than beat +24 right there, not even taking into account their likely +4 or +5 weapon, etc. Don't forget, Rage boosts that another few points for the barbarian, and the Fighter has Wpn Focus, Grtr Wpn Focus, Wpn Spc, Grtr Wpn Spc, and so forth. Either way, the pure Fighter or Barbarian of equivalent level does significantly better - pre-buffs. Also, if the EK is buffing himself rather than his allies, then I presume he is the tank of the group - the main combative. In this case, he needs to buff himself just to survive in the roll he has taken on for the group.</blockquote>