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<blockquote data-quote="Dark Dragon" data-source="post: 3408065" data-attributes="member: 1115">Well, let's compare a straight fighter with an EK. I used PHB and DMG rules only, except for Arcane Strike.1) EKFtr 1 / Wiz 5 / EK 10, humanStr 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10Feats: 11: Scribe Scroll (Wiz 1), Still Spell (Wiz 5), Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus (Great Sword) (Ftr 1), Power Attack, Improved Critical (Great Sword), Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind AttackSkills: 1st level (Ftr): 8 +4 (human) +3 (Int 16 at that level) =15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5 levels Wiz: 10 +10 +15 =35&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10 levels EK: 20 + 20 +30 =70, assuming Int 18 at level 16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sum: 120 pointsHit Points: 1d10+2 (12, 1st level) + 5d4+10 (avg. 22) + 10d6+20 (avg. 55), Sum: 89Base Saves: Fort +2 (Ftr) +7 (EK) + 1 (Wiz) +2 (Con) = +12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ref +0 (Ftr) +3 (EK) +1 (Wiz) + 2 (Dex) = +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Will +0 (Ftr) +3 (EK) + 4 (Wiz) +1 (Wis) = +8BAB:+13Spells: CL 14, max. spell level is 7Spells per level: 0: 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1: 4+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2: 4+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3: 4+2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 4: 4+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5: 3+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6: 3+1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 7: 2+1Weapon: Great Sword +2Relevant magic items: Belt of Str +2 (raising Str to 18), Headband of Int +6 (raising Int to 24)Full Attack (without buff spells and AS): +20/+15/+10 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8, 17-20, x2, avg. 15 damage)Full Attack, including AS at spell level 7: +27/+22/+17 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8+7d4, 17-20, x2, avg. 32 damage)Full Attack, including AS at spell level 7 and PA 5: +22/+17/+12 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8+7d4+10, 17-20, x2, avg. 42 damage)2) FtrFtr 16, humanStr 18, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 10Feats: 17: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Iron Will, Endurance, Diehard, Quick Draw, Improved Critical (Great Sword)Skills: 1st level (Ftr): 8 +4 (human) +1 (Int) =13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 15 levels Ftr: 30 + 15 + 15 = 60&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sum: 73 pointsHit Points: 1d10+3 (13, 1st level) + 15d10+45 (avg. 127), Sum: 140Base Saves: Fort +10 +3 (Con) = +13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ref +5 + 1 (Dex) = +6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Will +5 +2 (Iron Will) +2 (Wis) = +9BAB:+16Weapon: Great Sword +3Relevant magic items: Belt of Str +6 (raising Str to 24), Periapt of Wis +2 (raising Wis to 16)Full Attack: +28/+23/+18/+13 (Great Sword +3, 2d6+17, 17-20, x2, avg. 24 damage)Full Attack, including PA 5: +23/+18/+13/+8 (Great Sword +3, 2d6+17+10, 17-20, x2, avg. 34 damage)To sum it up:The EK is capable of dealing 132 points of damage per round, the fighter comes to 136 points. The fighter needs four hits to achieve this amount of damage, the EK only needs three. No buff spells are involved.The EK can do that 3 times per day, the fighter as often as long as he is alive. If you use a sorcerer instead of a wizard, the EK can dish out that damage about 10 times per day...The base saves are almost the same.The EK has more skill points, the fighter more hit points and feats.The EK can buff himself, the fighter not. Add-in spells like haste, enlarge person, bull's strength and heroism, and the EK will outclass the fighter. The EK can buff his AC with spells like shield, mage armor and cat's grace (and others), he could use greater invisibility or displacement to improve his AC further...My impression is that the EK is a fighter with a very good spell support, something that a true fighter has not among his options. So, the fighter needs backup from other persons, the EK is able to &quot;work&quot; alone up to a certain degree.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dark Dragon, post: 3408065, member: 1115"] Well, let's compare a straight fighter with an EK. I used PHB and DMG rules only, except for Arcane Strike. 1) EK Ftr 1 / Wiz 5 / EK 10, human Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 10 Feats: 11: Scribe Scroll (Wiz 1), Still Spell (Wiz 5), Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus (Great Sword) (Ftr 1), Power Attack, Improved Critical (Great Sword), Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack Skills: 1st level (Ftr): 8 +4 (human) +3 (Int 16 at that level) =15 5 levels Wiz: 10 +10 +15 =35 10 levels EK: 20 + 20 +30 =70, assuming Int 18 at level 16 Sum: 120 points Hit Points: 1d10+2 (12, 1st level) + 5d4+10 (avg. 22) + 10d6+20 (avg. 55), Sum: 89 Base Saves: Fort +2 (Ftr) +7 (EK) + 1 (Wiz) +2 (Con) = +12 Ref +0 (Ftr) +3 (EK) +1 (Wiz) + 2 (Dex) = +6 Will +0 (Ftr) +3 (EK) + 4 (Wiz) +1 (Wis) = +8 BAB:+13 Spells: CL 14, max. spell level is 7 Spells per level: 0: 4 1: 4+2 2: 4+2 3: 4+2 4: 4+1 5: 3+1 6: 3+1 7: 2+1 Weapon: Great Sword +2 Relevant magic items: Belt of Str +2 (raising Str to 18), Headband of Int +6 (raising Int to 24) Full Attack (without buff spells and AS): +20/+15/+10 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8, 17-20, x2, avg. 15 damage) Full Attack, including AS at spell level 7: +27/+22/+17 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8+7d4, 17-20, x2, avg. 32 damage) Full Attack, including AS at spell level 7 and PA 5: +22/+17/+12 (Great Sword +2, 2d6+8+7d4+10, 17-20, x2, avg. 42 damage) 2) Ftr Ftr 16, human Str 18, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 10 Feats: 17: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialisation (Great Sword), Power Attack, Cleave, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Iron Will, Endurance, Diehard, Quick Draw, Improved Critical (Great Sword) Skills: 1st level (Ftr): 8 +4 (human) +1 (Int) =13 15 levels Ftr: 30 + 15 + 15 = 60 Sum: 73 points Hit Points: 1d10+3 (13, 1st level) + 15d10+45 (avg. 127), Sum: 140 Base Saves: Fort +10 +3 (Con) = +13 Ref +5 + 1 (Dex) = +6 Will +5 +2 (Iron Will) +2 (Wis) = +9 BAB:+16 Weapon: Great Sword +3 Relevant magic items: Belt of Str +6 (raising Str to 24), Periapt of Wis +2 (raising Wis to 16) Full Attack: +28/+23/+18/+13 (Great Sword +3, 2d6+17, 17-20, x2, avg. 24 damage) Full Attack, including PA 5: +23/+18/+13/+8 (Great Sword +3, 2d6+17+10, 17-20, x2, avg. 34 damage) To sum it up: The EK is capable of dealing 132 points of damage per round, the fighter comes to 136 points. The fighter needs four hits to achieve this amount of damage, the EK only needs three. No buff spells are involved. The EK can do that 3 times per day, the fighter as often as long as he is alive. If you use a sorcerer instead of a wizard, the EK can dish out that damage about 10 times per day... The base saves are almost the same. The EK has more skill points, the fighter more hit points and feats. The EK can buff himself, the fighter not. Add-in spells like haste, enlarge person, bull's strength and heroism, and the EK will outclass the fighter. The EK can buff his AC with spells like shield, mage armor and cat's grace (and others), he could use greater invisibility or displacement to improve his AC further... My impression is that the EK is a fighter with a very good spell support, something that a true fighter has not among his options. So, the fighter needs backup from other persons, the EK is able to "work" alone up to a certain degree. [/QUOTE]

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