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<blockquote data-quote="KenNYC" data-source="post: 7449103" data-attributes="member: 6791261">Rolling under your stat was the simplest of all.&nbsp;&nbsp; Your strength is a 14, roll under that on a d20.&nbsp;&nbsp; The End.&nbsp;&nbsp; No calculating proficiency or consulting a sheet to see what your modifier is, just roll the die and see the result.&nbsp;&nbsp; The problem is now having stats higher than 18 sort of kills the whole idea of that roll.&nbsp; However, it is far easier to just say your Dex is a 15 and you rolled a 12, therefore you passed, then as a DM wondering if this should be acrobatics or atheletics, what level you are and add the 2, did your character choose that at the start for extra proficiency, and so on.&nbsp; The thief's progression table was slightly more complicated, but the trade off is the class got something unique just for them.&nbsp; They have a 59% chance of hiding in a shadow, well nobody else does, and that sort of implies their background as a sneaky thief and years of training.&nbsp;&nbsp; Now everyone can pick a lock or do whatever, so the thief lost some atmosphere and charm.That is one thing I would say the new editions got wrong:&nbsp; vanillafying and making everything equal and fair.&nbsp;&nbsp; Everyone sort of lost a little something to make everything uniform.&nbsp; All they got to replace the missing theme was more dice damage and extra attacks of some sort.&nbsp; I would say the best system would be to use both concepts at whim that serves the story best.&nbsp;&nbsp; For a simple dex check the roll under system works at lower levels.&nbsp;&nbsp; For grappling and whatnot, the new system works better.&nbsp; &nbsp; Plus, having no consistent system will keep the min maxers at bay.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KenNYC, post: 7449103, member: 6791261"] Rolling under your stat was the simplest of all. Your strength is a 14, roll under that on a d20. The End. No calculating proficiency or consulting a sheet to see what your modifier is, just roll the die and see the result. The problem is now having stats higher than 18 sort of kills the whole idea of that roll. However, it is far easier to just say your Dex is a 15 and you rolled a 12, therefore you passed, then as a DM wondering if this should be acrobatics or atheletics, what level you are and add the 2, did your character choose that at the start for extra proficiency, and so on. The thief's progression table was slightly more complicated, but the trade off is the class got something unique just for them. They have a 59% chance of hiding in a shadow, well nobody else does, and that sort of implies their background as a sneaky thief and years of training. Now everyone can pick a lock or do whatever, so the thief lost some atmosphere and charm. That is one thing I would say the new editions got wrong: vanillafying and making everything equal and fair. Everyone sort of lost a little something to make everything uniform. All they got to replace the missing theme was more dice damage and extra attacks of some sort. I would say the best system would be to use both concepts at whim that serves the story best. For a simple dex check the roll under system works at lower levels. For grappling and whatnot, the new system works better. Plus, having no consistent system will keep the min maxers at bay. [/QUOTE]

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