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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janx" data-source="post: 6659993" data-attributes="member: 8835">yup. the Joe Horn case.From CHL class, there's basically degrees of separation from you to why you pull your gun out.  Each degree raises your legal risk (as in you will have a harder time avoiding jail if your defense fails):I might get the order a little wrong, it's been a year...1 defense of your self from harm.2 defense of your immediate property from theft/damage (aka wallet)3 defense of your family from harm (wife, kids)4 defense of your home/property from theft/damage (ex car, TV, etc)5 defense of another person from harm (neighbor, that lady screaming for help over there)6 defense of another person's property from theft/damageJoe Horn was at 6, trying to stop 2 dudes from taking some stuff out of his neighbor's window.Technically legit, but as it required advancing toward trouble (because Joe was at his house, they were over there), his lawyers had to work extra hard to frame it correctly.The point of those degrees of separation, and advancing towards trouble is that in any self defense case, there are two sides.  Yours, and the other guy who wants you to pay for what you done.The other side is going to make you look like a vengeance crazed racist, even if you were totally justified.  Quannel X showed up for this case and argued just that in the court of public opinion.I heard that Joe Horn was cleared, but it cost him a lot of money, losing him his home (I think Danny said so in some other thread).On the Zimmerman vs. Trayvon case, it's not always clear how I stand.Zimmerman should have stayed in the car. Not because dispatch told him to, but because he was armed and it was a really bad idea to confront a suspect, and the cops were on the way, and nobody was in active danger.  He was off the radar of those 6 degrees I listed.  Thus, his legal risk was much higher.But legally, he had a right to be there in that neighborhood.  He had a right to talk to anybody he wanted.  So he didn't break any law up to that point.It's likely he initiated contact.  Nobody knows what he said or how he handled it.It's not implausible that Trayvon's response didn't make things better. Trayvon said some racist stuff on the phone, allegedly.  Black vs. hispanic is a problem in schools. Where Zimmerman was accused of being racist, is that really likely in an adult of MIXED race compared to a black teen in high school?  If Trayvon had been an Urkel with clean record, I'd buy that he was squeaky clean in that fight.  A football player, with some issues at school, likely added some fuel to that situation.  This is likely how Zimmerman's lawyers presented it, and it is not implausible.Result is, mystery verbal contact, Trayvon getting some good hits in, gun shot. Tragedy.I don't think either one made good choices that night.Making bad choices can get you killed.  The other guy could have a gun, so if you fight him, he could shoot you.  Turns out this was true.Zimmerman was the adult (with a gun), he had a greater duty to exercise caution because of thatUltimately, like all self defense cases, it came down to a jury.  Do I trust in the judicial system or not?  If not, then like an election where my guy loses, I have to accept that I don't get my way every time.At this point, one of the sad things I see from that case, is Zimmerman keeps getting into trouble.  I think many folks see this as confirmation that he was a bad guy the whole time. But I think another possibility is that he's got some kind of PTSD/survivor's guilt thing going on.  Meaning that the whole deal could have gone down like zimmerman said, and he's become unstable from it, causing him to act badly now.There are many ways this stuff isn't always what it looks like.</blockquote>

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