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<blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 5917179" data-attributes="member: 3586"><p>Well, we've played another session of our somewhat erratic Pathfinder game, and here are a few highlights. Or lowlights:</p><p></p><p><strong>The Wave Door</strong></p><p>The group began by finding the Wave Door (easily - natural 20 on the check). Well, it was easy after the Pathfinder NPC explained the riddle to them because No-One Could Understand It Especially As There Wasn't A Riddle Handout. They turned the shadows guarding it (not before 7 strength damage to two PCs), grabbed the items, and oohed and aahed over the stuff. And learnt something from the scrolls. Good things.</p><p></p><p>And then...</p><p></p><p><strong>The Arena of Summoning - or We Didn't Playtest This</strong></p><p>Actually, we might be able to call this module, "The One They Didn't Playtest At All", because there is no damn way they playtested the Arena of Summoning encounter. Not with an actual summoner.</p><p></p><p>The encounter - as written - has one (5th level) PC squaring off against a 7th level summoner. They both can cast summon spells - as many as they like as long as they all summon the same creature - and other spells to enhance their minions. The other PCs can shout encouragement (bonuses to AC or Attack), or cast enhancement spells as well. The fight ends when all the summoned monsters on one side are dead. </p><p></p><p>It sounds fine as an encounter... except when you start comparing the levels of what's going on. The opponent starts by summoning d4+1 Lemures. Then casts haste, then d4+1 Lemures, d3 Lemures, d3 Lemures and finally 1 Lemure. So, 12 Lemures against whatever our caster could come up with... who is fifth level. Level 1 creatures aren't going to cut it at all, so you're looking at basically being able to summon d3+d3+3 "Lemure-level" creatures in reply. Against hasted Lemures. With Damage Reduction 5/good or silver.</p><p></p><p>Tim, who plays our Level 5 Sorcerer who has Summon Monster I and Summon Monster II - and is playing his first Pathfinder game - led of with summoning an Air Elemental. 1d4+1 damage, which can't hurt the Lemures. Smart. At this point, I asked him if he wanted to rethink his choice, and we went into a discussion about how summon monster works, and eventually we settled on... err, something celestial. We represented them with spiders on the board, so I keep thinking "celestial spiders", but in actual fact they were celestial hyenas.</p><p></p><p>So, four uses of creating one Celestial Hyena. How would they survive? By having Lee's cleric cast Protection from Evil on them. Yes, it meant that the lemures couldn't touch the warded hyenas at all, as long as the hyenas didn't attack. I was very kind to the party, and had the protection lapse <em>only[/] for the creature it attacked. So, we got the hyenas going one-on-one with selected Lemures.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Mind you, as the combat dragged on, I began to wonder about this encounter. What happened if the PCs failed? (No mention in the text, and if I hadn't been kind, they certainly would have failed it). There was text saying that if <em>the</em> monster vanished, the round was a draw and it had to restart. Only one monster? But the villain is summoning d4+1 of these things! There's no way that the PC's monsters can kill them all, so what happens?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>There's an option for one of the PCs to fight the summoned monsters rather than the PC summoning them - I expect that would have been a lot more fun, but it plays against the intent if the party actually has a summoner in it. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>We talk to the Pathfinders... and they Know Nothing</strong></em></p><p><em>After all of that, the party interviewed the spirits of the dead pathfinders that they'd recovered the remains of - all two of them. Unfortunately, those pathfinders couldn't tell them much about Delvehaven, especially the one who apparently was in charge of sealing it down. Was it too much to expect for such details to be included in the "what they say" section? Apparently so. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Ghaelfin says:</em></p><p><em>"When Delvehaven was sealed, lodge wizards laced the halls with magical traps and activated several guardians. Ghaelfin did not pay much attention to the details, but Coriana knows more, if the PCs can recover her remains."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Coriana says:</em></p><p><em>"..."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><em>Traps and guardians? I know nothing about them!</em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Both Ghaelfin and Coriana do give a few good points of info, but most of the important info was found in the wave door (and the PCs are now aware of the possibility of a vampire enemy). Weak writing and editing? You bet!</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><strong>And then... Delvehaven</strong></em></p><p><em>We had half-an-hour left then, so it was just going into the opening part of Delvehaven, which has all these stasis-globe traps in the grounds marked with "T"s... except there isn't a single trap marked on the map.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The stasis-traps are pretty lame as presented, so I was happy to leave them out, but really, Paizo? You can't put the traps on the map?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The actual description of the interior of Delvehaven was pretty evocative and the players and I were happy for it. The group explored the upper level before exploring all of the ground level, and managed to avoid releasing a magically-trapped creature, instead destroying the decayed jungle-bridge by trying to cross it. (Not a good idea, but Dave's halfling monk survived the experience). They then went back down to the first of the libraries, where they all experienced (and chose not the resist) the Books of Memories.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>This was one of the highlights of the adventure for us, as each character picked a different book and absorbed its awakened memories. (Which mostly translated to some minor adjustments to saves and skills). There's a great role-playing opportunity for the right players here, although I doubt this group will take advantage of it. We finished the session there, with the group happy at their latest find.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The overall story so far has been entertaining, and there have been a lot of nice encounters... but some of it has required a lot of DM rewriting. I insulate the PCs from most of the more stupid bits of the adventure - although not enough from the Summoner Fight, which is DUMB, DUMB, DUMB! I feel I'm harsher on these ones than Wizards (which aren't that great) mainly because Paizo has such a high reputation when it comes to adventures. I'm hoping to see a good one soon.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I've warned the players that there is a TPK fight coming up (I intend to let them have it, then redo it against a fair monster), and that should probably occur this week, as we continue our trek through <em>What Lies In Dust</em>. (Paizo's reputation, mainly).</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MerricB, post: 5917179, member: 3586"] Well, we've played another session of our somewhat erratic Pathfinder game, and here are a few highlights. Or lowlights: [b]The Wave Door[/b] The group began by finding the Wave Door (easily - natural 20 on the check). Well, it was easy after the Pathfinder NPC explained the riddle to them because No-One Could Understand It Especially As There Wasn't A Riddle Handout. They turned the shadows guarding it (not before 7 strength damage to two PCs), grabbed the items, and oohed and aahed over the stuff. And learnt something from the scrolls. Good things. And then... [b]The Arena of Summoning - or We Didn't Playtest This[/b] Actually, we might be able to call this module, "The One They Didn't Playtest At All", because there is no damn way they playtested the Arena of Summoning encounter. Not with an actual summoner. The encounter - as written - has one (5th level) PC squaring off against a 7th level summoner. They both can cast summon spells - as many as they like as long as they all summon the same creature - and other spells to enhance their minions. The other PCs can shout encouragement (bonuses to AC or Attack), or cast enhancement spells as well. The fight ends when all the summoned monsters on one side are dead. It sounds fine as an encounter... except when you start comparing the levels of what's going on. The opponent starts by summoning d4+1 Lemures. Then casts haste, then d4+1 Lemures, d3 Lemures, d3 Lemures and finally 1 Lemure. So, 12 Lemures against whatever our caster could come up with... who is fifth level. Level 1 creatures aren't going to cut it at all, so you're looking at basically being able to summon d3+d3+3 "Lemure-level" creatures in reply. Against hasted Lemures. With Damage Reduction 5/good or silver. Tim, who plays our Level 5 Sorcerer who has Summon Monster I and Summon Monster II - and is playing his first Pathfinder game - led of with summoning an Air Elemental. 1d4+1 damage, which can't hurt the Lemures. Smart. At this point, I asked him if he wanted to rethink his choice, and we went into a discussion about how summon monster works, and eventually we settled on... err, something celestial. We represented them with spiders on the board, so I keep thinking "celestial spiders", but in actual fact they were celestial hyenas. So, four uses of creating one Celestial Hyena. How would they survive? By having Lee's cleric cast Protection from Evil on them. Yes, it meant that the lemures couldn't touch the warded hyenas at all, as long as the hyenas didn't attack. I was very kind to the party, and had the protection lapse [i]only[/] for the creature it attacked. So, we got the hyenas going one-on-one with selected Lemures. Mind you, as the combat dragged on, I began to wonder about this encounter. What happened if the PCs failed? (No mention in the text, and if I hadn't been kind, they certainly would have failed it). There was text saying that if [i]the[/i] monster vanished, the round was a draw and it had to restart. Only one monster? But the villain is summoning d4+1 of these things! There's no way that the PC's monsters can kill them all, so what happens? There's an option for one of the PCs to fight the summoned monsters rather than the PC summoning them - I expect that would have been a lot more fun, but it plays against the intent if the party actually has a summoner in it. [b]We talk to the Pathfinders... and they Know Nothing[/b] After all of that, the party interviewed the spirits of the dead pathfinders that they'd recovered the remains of - all two of them. Unfortunately, those pathfinders couldn't tell them much about Delvehaven, especially the one who apparently was in charge of sealing it down. Was it too much to expect for such details to be included in the "what they say" section? Apparently so. Ghaelfin says: "When Delvehaven was sealed, lodge wizards laced the halls with magical traps and activated several guardians. Ghaelfin did not pay much attention to the details, but Coriana knows more, if the PCs can recover her remains." Coriana says: "..." [i]Traps and guardians? I know nothing about them![/i] Both Ghaelfin and Coriana do give a few good points of info, but most of the important info was found in the wave door (and the PCs are now aware of the possibility of a vampire enemy). Weak writing and editing? You bet! [b]And then... Delvehaven[/b] We had half-an-hour left then, so it was just going into the opening part of Delvehaven, which has all these stasis-globe traps in the grounds marked with "T"s... except there isn't a single trap marked on the map. The stasis-traps are pretty lame as presented, so I was happy to leave them out, but really, Paizo? You can't put the traps on the map? The actual description of the interior of Delvehaven was pretty evocative and the players and I were happy for it. The group explored the upper level before exploring all of the ground level, and managed to avoid releasing a magically-trapped creature, instead destroying the decayed jungle-bridge by trying to cross it. (Not a good idea, but Dave's halfling monk survived the experience). They then went back down to the first of the libraries, where they all experienced (and chose not the resist) the Books of Memories. This was one of the highlights of the adventure for us, as each character picked a different book and absorbed its awakened memories. (Which mostly translated to some minor adjustments to saves and skills). There's a great role-playing opportunity for the right players here, although I doubt this group will take advantage of it. We finished the session there, with the group happy at their latest find. The overall story so far has been entertaining, and there have been a lot of nice encounters... but some of it has required a lot of DM rewriting. I insulate the PCs from most of the more stupid bits of the adventure - although not enough from the Summoner Fight, which is DUMB, DUMB, DUMB! I feel I'm harsher on these ones than Wizards (which aren't that great) mainly because Paizo has such a high reputation when it comes to adventures. I'm hoping to see a good one soon. I've warned the players that there is a TPK fight coming up (I intend to let them have it, then redo it against a fair monster), and that should probably occur this week, as we continue our trek through [i]What Lies In Dust[/i]. (Paizo's reputation, mainly).[/i] [/QUOTE]
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