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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7929584" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I can see the argument about presentation, from a certain perspective. For example, I have constantly felt that the fluff and feel of 5e is much more evocative than 4e. 4e just felt very sterile to me, but, I acknowledge that you could easily build the same lore and game world in 4e that you could build anywhere else. The way it was written and presented made it feel like you couldn't, but that was a different issue than an actual lack of fluff and flavor.I would say there were two things that actually caused me major problems when I ran 4e. 1) There was just so much. I never felt like I had a solid grasp on the system and the rules, there were just so many different abilities and oh my god the feats. I remember using the digital character generator, and the sheer number of feats that would pop up nearly crashed the computer. No one had any idea what they wanted, and taking the time to read all the abilities available to you could take an hour. 2) I felt like I couldn't change anything. I don't know how much of this was from #1 and how much was me being less experienced as a DM, but I felt far more constrained by 4e than I do by 5e. I didn't feel like I could change the monsters, the items, the class abilities, everything just was so tightly locked in place that I couldn't see a way to move the pieces to get a different effect. I don't have that in 5e. I feel completely comfortable altering things all the time, and have for a long time.It could be this is all because I was in on 5e from the initial playtest, while I started 4e after it had been out for a few years. That could be a major factor in the difference I see between the two systems, maybe if I'd been on the ground floor of 4e I would have been comfortable and not overwhelmed, but all that being said, I can see that the presentation of 4e didn't help how it was received. Long lists of abilities in card format, all of them slotting into a limited number of choices. It felt very different.</blockquote>

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