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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7930340" data-attributes="member: 29398">To answer the OP: having played a fair bit of 1e and 3e and having read through 2e-4e-5e I don't think 4e's presentation - as in, layout, organization, etc. - in its core books was any worse than the others; and is perhaps better than some.&nbsp; Unfortunately, the actual material that was so nicely presented in those books did nothing for me at all except provide a few really cool monsters and a couple of good, if isolated, edition-agnostic rules ideas e.g. bloodied.The presentation of 4e's adventure modules is another question entirely.&nbsp; I've converted modules from every D&amp;D edition to use in my game, and the 4e ones are the worst. (3e and 5e modules aren't much better but unlike the 4e ones at least they usually have all the info I need buried in there somewhere)Another thing that turned me right off of 4e after reading through it was that there seemed to be bits missing from the initial core three books, likely because they held things back for the next round of core books. As far as I'm concerned the initial core three books (PH, DMG, MM) should be all I ever need to run a given edition in the way it's intended to be run.As for frequency of failure: if PF2 (which I honestly know next to nothing about) and 4e systemically set you up to fail often enough that you notice it, I'd call that a feature rather than a bug.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7930340, member: 29398"] To answer the OP: having played a fair bit of 1e and 3e and having read through 2e-4e-5e I don't think 4e's presentation - as in, layout, organization, etc. - in its core books was any worse than the others; and is perhaps better than some. Unfortunately, the actual material that was so nicely presented in those books did nothing for me at all except provide a few really cool monsters and a couple of good, if isolated, edition-agnostic rules ideas e.g. bloodied. The presentation of 4e's adventure modules is another question entirely. I've converted modules from every D&D edition to use in my game, and the 4e ones are the worst. (3e and 5e modules aren't much better but unlike the 4e ones at least they usually have all the info I need buried in there somewhere) Another thing that turned me right off of 4e after reading through it was that there seemed to be bits missing from the initial core three books, likely because they held things back for the next round of core books. As far as I'm concerned the initial core three books (PH, DMG, MM) should be all I ever need to run a given edition in the way it's intended to be run. As for frequency of failure: if PF2 (which I honestly know next to nothing about) and 4e systemically set you up to fail often enough that you notice it, I'd call that a feature rather than a bug. [/QUOTE]

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