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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7931591" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I'm entirely confused by your statement being attached to the section you quoted. I'm not saying that you are slighting me. In fact, the entire point of the section you quoted was discussing why it might be a good design decision to make it incredibly hard to make poor characters. Because as much as you might want "your build choices to matter" there are other people out there who would be very comforted to know "you can't actually mess this up" That has nothing to do with your opinion of Paizo and their decisions, except perhaps that you seem completely shocked that they are taking the route they are. You seem to think they are taking no design points that have any value.Again, what you are quoting and what you are saying seem disconnected to me. That section you quote is about what the line means in the movie.But, I would say, that your line of thinking here does seem to betray the idea that we were discussing. If it is not possible to mess up, then it isn't possible to do well. But, as much as you might enjoy the challenge of doing a well-designed character who is special, other people are going to get frustrated and upset about making a character who sucks. Why can't it be a smaller curve? Why can't it be that most characters, even if generated completely randomly will be of average strength, and then those well-designed characters are just a little above them? Why does it have to be that there are bad options that you should never take? What does that add for the new person looking to try out this game they are uncertain of?Max, you are wrong. Straight up, no point in denying it. Saying "if people just cared enough they'd play to higher levels" is dismissive and flat out wrong. Groups get in fights.People leave the areaPeople get new jobs People get new relationshipsPeople get new childrenDMs get burnt outHeck, sometimes they decide to stop a campaign and try a new one because they got a new idea. This isn't a matter of "you can do it if you care enough." Life is complicated, and dismissing the fact that not all players get to choose when their campaigns and groups break apart, is rude and demeaning of yourself. Sure, some groups can do it. Your group does it. But not everyone lives the same life with the same opportunities.</blockquote>

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